0302 found in Venezuela

Ex-Scuderia cars usually, I remember reading a story of 290MM of Aguinaldo Góes that got destroyed in Interlagos for the same reason (s/n 0606). Best wishes, Kare

 

Most historians keep within facts or what they believe to be facts. Tackling the most difficult problems means you have to speculate, which in return means that sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong. Except when you are terribly wrong. When facing a very hard problem, some people say they can't solve it, most people go silent. This is a pity as the most spectacular progress occurs where people are willing to speculate and not afraid of other people's judgement in case they are wrong. That's what in my eyes makes a great scientists - or a historian. Best wishes, Kare

 

Very, Very, True.

 

There are some facts that I think should be considered on 625 TF 0302:

- 0302 was the lowest s/n of the three Vignale 625 TFs, so most probably the first one built, and before de the IV Gran Premio dell Autodromo, held in Monza 29/06/53

- 625 TF designation is reffered to it’s 2.5 liter engine, which in my understanding were developed before the 3 liter 735s

- According to the existing copies of 0302 data sheets (foglios), dated december ’53 and January ’54, this car/chassis was tested at the dyno with a 735 3 liter engine.

I took the liberty of attaching a Ferrari Market Letter, found on this forum with an article about the first 4 cyl Ferraris, that might give some light on the subject
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This is a delightful trhead! Tons of info, please keep it coming.

 

Off course! The car was designed around the then current 2.5-litre F1-engine. Larger 735-engine with total displacement of 2941,66 cc was then designed for sports car racing. Bore was later increased from 102 to 103 mm and engine now became known as 750 with total displacement of 2999,62 cc.

 

So vey true. This is why I am trying to keep the 0302/0304/0306 investigation alive. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Hi. this is just the kind of info that keep the discussion going. Good Work!! Ok Mr Massini, lets hear from you, You really need to get involved here. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Yes there are pictures of the original coupe and I have them. Copyrights tell me not to post them but anyone who would like copies can send their address to [email protected] and I will send them copies just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Hi sorry for the delay. You need to go back to F Chat 6/28/08 and find the thread "Chassis 1C/10S update". There are many pages and posts over many months about this car but you will see opinions by some very respected Ferrari historians. The truth about this car has never been established. You will come across my opinions, which I still believe in, that the car was made with parts from the Ferrari "junk pile" by a person who had access to these parts and assembled this car completely on his own with no involvement by the factory.My feeling now is the the same sort of thing, not including the 'junk pile", may well have happened with 0302 as well as the other twoTF chassis. These cars are gaining interest as you can see. The more you can send us about what you have in Venezuela the more we can pursue this. Keep us posted. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Hello everybody, I'm curious about this rare car, 625 tf, when was the Scaglietti body installed on this car? what happened to the Vignale body remainings? when did it catch fire for the first and second time(one fire dressed as Vignale and another dressed as Scaglietti)?why the chassis number plate is not considered original? specially when the sister barchetta car has got two chassis numbers as the car found in Venezuela?

 

Another issue about the Ferrari/Mercedes is the date of the Venezuela GP in which it competed. 0562 was probably not in Venezuela until 1956. Could this picture of #32 be from the Venezuela GP of 1957? Two Mondiale 500s were in Venezuela from late 1956, 0562 and 0534. If you compare the pictures of 0534 and what we can see of #32, they seem to have the same colour, front fender vent and head rest. The early history of 0534 in Venezuela is unclear. Ottavia Guarducci imported the car into Venezuela in early 1957. Could this be the Ferrari/Mercedes in the Venezuela GP of 1957? Lets hear some opinions on this.Also I have a copy of a B&W press photo of a Mondiale claiming this is the Ferrari/Mercedes but the body is clearly not white with a center strip. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

1953 fire destroyed the original Beautiful Vignale berlinetts body. The first unique Scalietti type body was probably installed later in 1953[ some say this body was on 0406] In any case 0302 is credidted with numerous events from Casablanca 12/20.53 to Oulton Park 8/27/55[see Barchetta] A third body was installed eather before or after the car was impotted into Venezuela in 1956/57. This body appears to be more like the traditional Scaglietti 500MD series 1 bodies. If this third body was installed after the car was imported into Venezuela, which I believe, it is unlikely the car was sent back to Italy for this new body. Several years later this body was destroyed in another fire and replaced with a crude body which I believe is the same as on the recent discovery. Please remember there is not much to confirm the above. This is what is being investigated in an effort to uncover the provenance of this "barn find".We are hoping to get detailed pictures,measurements and drawings of the chassis in an effort to learn more about its past. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

- The Oulton Park's spider was s/n 0406MD (no connection with our story : 0406MD was a 500 Mondial Pinin Farina spyder later fitted with a Scaglietti nose).

- Again : how 0302TF could be the Ferrari Mercedes as they are pics of this car in 1959 still with the early Scaglietti spyder body ??

 

Post #215 says your spyder is the ex-early Scaglietti spyder (Casablanca 1953 etc), which is completely wrong of course...

 

Have any of you seen o read a fascicle published by DeAgostini about the 1953 625 TF Granturismo?

It is written by Roberto Bonetto (I) in 32 pages and is one of 65 fascicles collection, covering the Ferrari Granturismo and published in several languages
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Why not a picture of the whole car as it is right now? I understand the need to see frame detail, but for some of us with a little expertise in that area it would be nice to see a complete picture.

Thanks

Also, I have no idea how a 300 SL engine is mounted, but I'm pretty sure that a chevy 283 CID and a 350 CID engine would/could use the same mounts. The 283 became the 307, 327 and then the 350...essentially the same block, just bored further out. When you said you found 2 sets of mounts, could one set be the 300 SL if the 283 and 350 shared the other?

 

Not in my opinion this car had an accident in Cucuta Colombia in 1960, and his owner at the time was Jose Zilio who made the body it was exported with, and you can see the Ferrari Mercedes in Ciudad Ojeda in 1960 this time with a 283 engine, you always say that you have pictures and extra info, but I dont see you sharing it.
branko
PS if you see post #1 and from then on in several posts I mention that what was found here is the Ferrari Mercedes.[/QUOTE]
Hi, thanks the correction to 1957.Regarding sharing I am always concerned about copyright rules. Send me your postal address and I will send you what ever you wish. I am today sending pictures to Buenios Aires. Thanks for the info about 1960 tongascrew

 

Hi, thanks for the info on 0406. If I understand you correctly you agree that 0302 is probably not the Merceded engined car. tongascrew