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0466 250 Monza

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Onebugatti, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

    Nov 12, 2003
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    the front of the car looks very low compared to other PF-Mondials.
    almost hot rodish.
    what has been changed?
     
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  3. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    Michael,

    To my eye it looks like the body above the grille is pushed down somewhat; it actually is lower in the middle than on the edges. I always wondered about this, it never looked quite right to me.

    Sorry to go off-topic (again)
     
  4. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula Junior

    Jul 11, 2003
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    AdK
    The "Grande Premio de Rio de Janeiro" on the Boa Vista circuit was on 08.12.1957. Listed drivers are Casini, Viana, Zampiero and Manfredini on Ferrari.

    For Petrópolis I have the 5th Circuito de Petrópolis in March 1957 with Casini.

    My knowledge of South-American geography is rather limited, but according to Wikipedia is Petrópolis located about 65 km from the city of Rio de Janeiro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr%C3%B3polis
     
  5. 430 scuderia

    430 scuderia Guest

    Jun 10, 2008
    790
    Oh God. It begs for a restoration.. Make someone, something fast ;-)

    Regards
    Greg
     
  6. margarita

    margarita Formula 3

    Mar 20, 2011
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    usa
    nice find omg
     
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  8. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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  9. Franco Lombardi

    Franco Lombardi Karting

    Nov 17, 2009
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    #57 Franco Lombardi, Feb 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The 250 Monza Pininfarina presented by Franco Mainers at the 2012 Retromobile is a very interesting and exciting car for any enthusiast and a serious problem for historians.
    Presented in battered but highly original conditions and now fitted with engine 0466, bought several years ago from Brazil (it ended up inside the 225S Vignale spider owned by the Marx family in Sao Paulo), the car is a perfect example of unmolested “barn find”.
    The question of its identity and of its origins are nevertheless fairly complicated, preventing its possible recognition by Ferrari.
    The 250 Monza series (in the Gilco registers on 30 December 1953 as “Complessivo No. 504/63249”) originally comprised four cars, built in the late spring and early summer of 1954. The first two (0420M and 0432M) were bodied, in full coherent chronological sequence with the analogous trend seen on the Mondials, by Pinin Farina, while the two last ones (0442M and 0466M) were bodied by Scaglietti. That number actually increased to five when a new chassis was made at Maranello to rebuild 0420M after a serious accident, giving thus origin to one of those identity confusions that are not entirely unheard of dealing with competition Ferraris.
    The Pinin Farina bodies of the first two 250 Monzas were perfectly in line with the design initially conceived in Turin for the 500 Mondial. Both had the elegant high-headlight front end proposed for the 4-cylinders starting with 0404MD. Having 0432M been built before 0430MD we can safely say that, from 0430MD on, the Turin coachbuilder (and Ferrari!) had discovered the aerodinamical problems ascribable to the high headlight configuration and the superiority of the more penetrating design proposed by Scaglietti. Ferrari imposed a lower frontal treatment with the less appealing but more efficient faired headlights (or “low nose”) front end for the final five chassis still assigned to Pinin Farina, entrusting then Scaglietti with the bodying of all his further sports cars.
    The presence of two 250 Monza bodied by Scaglietti has been recently confirmed by Sergio Scaglietti. Questioned by Franco Gozzi, he said: “As well as the 750 Monza there was also a 250 Monza – on the same chassis as the 750 Monza but with the engine of the 250MM. We built two barchettas (Pininfarina built two spiders on the same chassis) which we called the 250 Monza. Cornacchia and Gerini came third in the Supercortemaggiore Grand Prix, but I can’t think of any other success with this car.” According to the records for 1954, Trintignant/Piotti won the Hyères 12 Hours in a Ferrari Monza. Might that be one of the two cars you built? “Piotti bought a lot of cars from me, but I can’t remember that victory. It might have been one of the Pininfarina spiders.” In Franco Gozzi, L’ê andeda acsè – Sergio Scaglietti una leggenda modenese, Donelli (Artioli Editore), Modena, 2008, p. 74-75 [my translation].
    Moreover, the theory that a 0466M 250 Monza might have been bodied by Pinin Farina was rejected by the Turin stylist, who found no mention of it in their registers. In a letter dated 24 February 1994, Fredi Valentini, the Turin Company’s head of public relations, said, “There is nothing to suggest that Ferrari chassis 0466M ever entered Pininfarina. I must therefore exclude the possibility of this car having been bodied by Pininfarina.”
    Where does this honest Pinin Farina bodied car comes from, then? We may safely assume that it takes its origins from the reconstruction of 0420M, originally sold in the Netherlands. Following the serious accident involving Joke Maasland (the daughter of the Dutch Ferrari importer) during the second heat of a race at Zandvoort on 15 August 1954 (race No. 45), the car returned to Maranello to be completely rebuilt, when it was given a new chassis, which is documented in the Ferrari archives. In the Gilco registers, there also appear indications of a further 504/63249 unit on 2 November 1954, and in addition 0420M appears twice in the Pinin Farina registers, first with its original design number 12595 and on 14 December 1954 with number 12597. The rebodied 0420M was then displayed in December 1954 at the Amsterdam Show.
    Moreover, pictures of the car as returned to Holland allow us to pick out a number of significant variations between this second body and its original one. In particular, these include the absence of a separate flap for access to the water radiator, and a different dash panel in front of the passenger, now closed instead of being open as originally. In addition, the shelving along the sides which was lengthened beyond the front wheel arch of the original body is absent on the one built in Turin at the time of its reconstruction (see the car as raced at Zandvoort by Hans Tak in May 1955 with No. 74, in white livery).
    On the other hand, the Pinin Farina 0466M shows both in the pictures of 1956/57 and today in Paris, a perfect adherence to the original design of 0420M, confirming its direct descent from that car.
    In the meantime, Ferrari used the Scaglietti 0466M, built in July 1954, as a prototype and test mule in the development process leading to the definitions of the new Tipos 509 and 510 being readied for 1955. Only in July 1955 Scuderia Guastalla finally was able to get the more developed and advanced Scaglietti car, equipped by then with coil springs at the front and a 5 speed transaxle. At the same time, Cornacchia (patron of the Guastalla) also obtained the Pinin Farina car reconstructed and re-bodied with the original shell of 0420M with the high headlights. Being both cars sold to Mario Valentim Dos Santos (presumably through Lino Fayen and Jôao Rezende Dos Santos), it is understandable that the reconstructed Pinin Farina car received the same identity to ease expensive import duty. We know for certain that 0466M Pinin Farina returned to Italy to compete in the 1956 Mille Miglia with Valentim Dos Santos and Mario Silva Araujo, with modest result, and then continued its career in local races in South America, mostly in Brazil with Henrique Carini and Álvaro Varanda.
    In conclusion, we thus have now five cars compared to the four officially known identities, but we should not forget that Ferrari built five 250 Monza chassis at the time!
    Several more points should be added to place the 250 Monza story in perspective but space and circumstances prevent a more detailed discussion. As a few FChatters might know, Antoine Prunet and I are getting close to complete a book, Ferrari in Line, the 4- and 6-cylinder Sports Cars and Relates Types (1953-57) dealing also with those cars. A longer and documented treatement will be found there.
    Franco Lombardi
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  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Photo #1 in post #57 is Copyright John Schaapman, from the collection of John Sinkgraven/NL.

    Marcel Massini
     
  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    According to the RAI Organization about the dates of the Amsterdam Motor Shows 1954, 1955 and 1956:
    1954: 26 February - 7 March.
    1955: 03 February - 12 February (this show was for COMMERCIAL vehicles only).
    1956: 23 February - 4 March.

    1954 is too early, 1955 is not possible so it must be 1956.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  13. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    #60 Marcel Massini, Feb 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The 250 Monza raced by Luigi Piotti and Maurice Trintignant in the III Annual Endurance Circuit South-East, Hyères 12 hours, on race #6, placing 1st OA, on the 6th June 1954, was chassis #0432 M (in its first configuration as a Pinin Farina Spider with Job #12594, with two different windscreens used, recessed headlights with plexiglass covers). 0432 M had been sold to Luigi Piotti in Milan, the day before that race (5th June 1954) and the declared sales price was 3'500'000 Italian Lire.
    0432 M was RE-NOSED in late 1954 by Piotti, prior to the 20th April 1955 sale from Piotti to Erasmo Simeoni of Venice, Italy, who continued to race 0432 M by using his alias name "Kammamuri". Later on, in 1957, 0432 M was completely REBODIED by Scaglietti with a new body similar to a 250 Testa Rossa pontoon fender (painted white with blue stripe, and later with a NART Sticker on the left side of the rear and on the fenders). Here is a photo of 0432 M, which I took in Newport Beach a few months ago.

    COPYRIGHT MARCEL MASSINI
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  14. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    Very sharp, Marcel:

    The Amsterdam show at the RAI-building was always in Feb/March, and as far as I can remember car- and truck-shows were annually alternating.
     
  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    #62 Marcel Massini, Feb 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is a photo showing the original 0420 M at Zandvoort, on the 15th August 1954, where Joke Maasland, daughter of Mrs. Johanna Jacoba "Ans" Maasland (the Ferrari, Alfa Romeo and Maserati concessionaire in Voorburg, The Netherlands) raced and crashed it. The man with the hands on the dashboard is HRH Prince Bernhard of The Netherlands.

    Marcel Massini
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  16. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
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    This photo was taken at Voorburg early in the morning on the 15th of August when preparing the car for the race later that day at Zandvoort.
     
  17. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
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    This thread could be described as "the stuff dreams are made of". What makes it even better this "stuff" isn't a fake. The original body must be saved. If a new body is created it better be very well done. The original body might be best conserved just as is along with all other original parts that may have to be recreated in order to make the car road worthy. I think we all will want to follow what happens with this car as time goes by. just one man's opinion tongascrew
     
  18. Franco Lombardi

    Franco Lombardi Karting

    Nov 17, 2009
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    Dear Marcel,
    Thanks for pointing out my mistake! I do not remember where I got the information about the Amsterdam Show. Possibly from Paul Schouwenburg who - as you know - owned 0420M for long time. In any case I should have double-checked my data. I am glad you are helping me not to reiterate my mistake.
    Beautiful pix of 0432M in its later form. Wanderful car. The original high headlight front end of the car got revised immediately after its victorious debut. At the GP Supercortemaggiore at the end of June, it already presented a unique pointed "low nose" solution. Not a Pinin Farina job, as far as I could say.
    Best,
    Franco
     
  19. cigarette

    cigarette Karting

    Sep 8, 2009
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    #66 cigarette, Feb 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. carvad

    carvad Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
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    Very interesting car.
     
  21. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
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    Does anyone know if it's still in the same condition?
     
  22. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    #69 merstheman, May 28, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is 0432M on a Jazz album cover:
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  23. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    Was 0420M built on a Mondial platform?

    john
     
  24. nico308

    nico308 Karting

    Dec 11, 2011
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    last night I came across this thread I remenber very well seeing this car at Rétromobile ,very interesting the facts brought by Mr Lombardi and Mr Massini ,by curiosity how far is the restauration of 0466M ,there is a mention about a book about those type of cars was it already published couldn't find anything maybe another title ?
    Mr Massini you are refering to Olivier Gendebien selling the car in 1977 to Mr Favero how did he owned the car ?
     
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