0812 - Back on Track

Absolutely wonderful!

My favourite car of all time next to my tying for favourite modern!

Really glad to hear the 250P is being used, properly! ;o)

 

I hope the price reflected that?
Is it in the US?

I honestly didn’t realise it's legal to fabricate a totally new chassis (if that’s what was done here?), and give it a title for 1964? I guess it depends on the country of registration?

What needs to remain of a chassis in order to be allowed to legally reproduce one with period registration (I sound like a stuck needle…), is a vin plate and title sufficient?

 

For a registration in a country expect that the folks at the Department of Motor Vehicles (what we have inthe US) don't know/don't care about provenance. They are civil servants trying to get to the next person in line. Their questions are about the paperwork being in order. Is there a prior title? Depending upon the state it is being registered in does it have an up to date safety inspection and smog test certificate? They wouldn't care about rebuilt frames, bodies and swapped engines - does the VIN match the paperwork? In the vintage world I doubt that anyone bothered to report an accident and subsequent rebuild tothe point where a salvage title would have been issued.

With the pure race cars they would not have been titled originally. They changed hands on a bill of sale. What it took someone like Jim G to get registration on the P cars and Mark IV might be illuminating if he was the first one to try getting road registration. I expect that they wanted to see that a) the VIN tag on the car matched the application paperwork b) the car had the required road worth equipment in operational form c) correct amount of money for the application is attached.

Jeff

 

Generally 1967 and earlier cars are US legal to road register as long as they have proper street equipment such as headlights, turn signals etc.

The requirements are straight forward and there are procedures that must be followed.

In the case of 0846 my pdf. on the subject was part of the procedure as was the notification of Ferrari and the opportunity afforded to them to challenge my claim to 1967 Ferrari P 3/4 chassis 0846 which they did not. As I've stated the time during which they, or anyone, can legally challenge that claim passed many years ago.

The person offering 0814 has been totally upfront about what 0814 is and isn't and IMO there would be no problem registering it as 0814 in the US.

 

Jim,

Part of my point was making a first registration on a car that had not been registered before and had been acquired on a Bill of Sale. I still don't expect a DMV to care much but in that type of situation they don't have a paper trail to follow to make re-registration a nice brainless process.

Jeff

 

I personally haven't had a problem but as you say you have to have all of your paper work in order.

 

The local DMV here defers to "whatever they say" down at the Houston Police Department (the Theft Section, they know what they are looking at) ....a quick once over on the frame stampings, then a second form from the Safety Sticker Inspection (that's the turn signals, lights, horn and a trip around the block!) gets you back to the Tax Clerk's desk....

And off you go....most of the Tax Clerks are pretty disinterested. The officers are great, as it's usually a bright spot in their day!

The ONE cross check, and a local Salvage Yard showed me this, is that with the identifiable STREET models, they are pre priced (for taxation) as to a 'range' of values monetarily.

So don't go taking that "old Shelby Mustang" in there and telling them it was $500 bucks!
The values on my 308s was pretty close, and reflected the 'glass cars too.

 

Of course, I would love to try that with a "P" car or a 250LM....

But I think they would see all the other old 5 digit VINs I own, and approve a four digit VIN too!

 

In the case of 0814, it was caught up in a racing incident in (I believe)1968 and caught fire at St Jovite. The owner, Luigi Chinetti Jr was driving at the time. Photos taken at the track show that it was not badly damaged, but not repairable economically at the time. Luigi had the car taken back to Chinetti Motors in Connecticut and disasembled. Special cars and one offs were a lucrative side line for the company in those days and fortuitously all of the major components including the block, gearbox, suspension, radiators, brakes etc were kept together over the years with thintention of perhaps making a "special" someday. As values of these cars climbed, Chinetti undertook the restoration of the car and had a frame manufactured in Italy by the original manufacturer on the original jigs. Since he was the original owner of the car, having purchased it from the Factory direct in 1967, and since his ass was in the seat when it caught on fire, he as the only rightful owner has every right to reconstruct, rebuild and restore his property. It is currently in Sobara, Italy at Protauto in the final stages of its lengthy restoration to its original specification.

 

Exactly.

 

A cool perspective fo the history. If this car has this history in reality, I think anyone would have a VERY hard time proving some type of fraud. This seems like the EXACT same thing the factory would do for an equal type car.

This definitelt helps the average, lay guy understand the reason for the arguement....

 

I used monsieur Pierre Bardinon car, in Mas du Clos 12/20/1991. The car you have seen in Protauto wasn't a swb.

 

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151443052985297&set=a.10151016583705297.773753.154805300296&type=1&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151443052480297&set=a.10151016583705297.773753.154805300296&type=1&theater

 

At the end of 1991, when Luigi Chinetti asked me to go with him to the Mas du Clos, I had never seen a 275 P closely. Monsieur Pierre was very kind, he has made available his car in a large room. Luigi knew perfectly Bardinon's car, he had owned it, and he knew that the car was built almost identical. Luigi also knew which side of the Bardinon car was less damaged and was "more original". So he chose to make measurements on the right side of the beautiful 275 P. I copied it by hand with paper, pencils, and tape. In 1991, CAD was only for Stephen Spielberg. Back in Italy I made the drawings of all the sections by hand (the only difference was the sections were to be 4 inches instead of 10cm). In 1993, Luigi called me to realize the foam model in the U.S. (at the time I was working in the prototype of the Bugatti EB 110 SS). I had only 5 days of permission. I drew the sections in scale 1/1, and realize the 1/1 model in place. After 5 days the model was completed in the right side for 90%, in the left side for 80%. The final details had to be finished carefully with the help of photos and memories of the different protagonists survived. Defined the shape I knew that the model was back in Italy where the car was built entirely by Protauto.

 

anyway the shape/model of the Protauto 250/275P is wrong.
I have seen a 250 1960 SWB bonnet from Protauto.........completely wrong!

 

In Protauto you have seen the wrong shape of 250 SWB but the right shape of 250 LWB Interim!

 

Well said. My 250 California reproduction is listed by the DMV as a !967 Ford Mustang/ It's all based on the engine block which in this case is a 289 and old enough to exempt the car from emission testing. In Massachusetts this is a God send. just one man's opinion tongascrew