0854 Back to Original Coupe

I was thinking much the same thing....LOL!

 

Yes, I think that's a never ending story. But what to do with the car when something like this happens?

 

Much as Napolis has done, it should be carefully considered and restored to a period correct example.

In the case of the Medlin car, CanAm is it's final racing form, if a little wierd to my eye when compared to the original beauty...an example of racing evolution, or a car being totally used up....depending on your point of view.

If it were mine I'd do as Napolis, and start chopping it up and making new 1967 metal for it!

 

Hi Jim,

When I look at older and newer pictures from the, let us say, P4 cars, there are some remarkable things to notice. I see goldish, probably magnesium gearboxes and alloy boxes. The oldest picture I have from 0846 shows a goldish gearbox. The most original 412 P, 0848 has a magnesium gearbox too. I presume these are the ZF gearboxes known for its lack of durability. Thus the alloy ones must be the Ferrari gearboxes. Am I right?

Let’s move on:

I figured out the following:

Car Old pic New pic
0844 ? Alloy
0846 Magnesium Alloy
0848 ? Magnesium
0850 ? Alloy
0854 ? Alloy
0856 Alloy Alloy
0858 Alloy Alloy
0860 Alloy Alloy
0900 Magnesium Magnesium

What can be said about the gearboxes?

1. Has 0900 the original 0846 gearbox? Piper did have 0900 and 0846 in his possession at the same time. He could have swapped the gearboxes on a rainy Sunday afternoon.
2. Are you lucky to have a Ferrari gearbox in 0846?
3. Does 0848 still has its original ZF box?
4. Are 412P cars 0850 and 0854 equipped with Ferrari gearboxes? I know they where built directly to P4 specifications apart from the carburettors and cylinder heads. (0844, 0846 and 0848 received modified bodies and 0846, as a SF factory car, had some engine modifications to the heads and the fuel injection system).
5. Does it have nothing to do with the castings of the gearboxes? Is it just the mechanics insides whether a gearbox is ZF or Ferrari?
6. Did 0844 receive a Ferrari gearbox during the conversion to CanAm racer at the factory?

Kind regards,
Wouter Bekker

 

When I was working on 0850 it diffenately had a magnesium Ferrari gearbox and even had some spare magnesium castings on the spare parts shelf. 0850 was not completed until 1967 and ran at Daytona. Francorchamps had thier P4 shortly after that so the two cars were completed within months of each other.

Attached is a photo of what I believe to be a ZF gearbox not to be confused with a Ferrari gearbox.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

great shot.

 

So this must be 0844 or 0848? Probably in 1966 thus 330 P3.

 

No, it looks as though the engine has the taller intakes of the 1967 carburettor version with a much higher 'hump' in the bodywork than the p/i version of 1966; the rebuilt P3s (0844 and 0848) and the new 412P's 9 0850, 0854) ran with carbs and ZF boxes from Daytona '67 until just before Le Mans, when they were fitted with P4 type 603 boxes - so it must be a 412P in 1967.

Probably the ZF boxes were sold after LM '67.


Paul M

 

Maybe it is a pre Le Mans picture from 0850 with mister Castelhano working on it. But the car doesn't seem yellow to me when I compare the colour of the body with other red cars on black and white. I still think it's 0844. Note the longer pieces of metal covering the ends of the exhaust pipes (longtail).

 

Paul is correct. The photo is from Daytona 67 and is not 0850. I am not sure which car it is but it does appear to have carbs not FI.

 

Cars running at Daytona 1967: 0844 (berlinetta) with carbs, 0846 (spyder) with fuel injection, 0856 (berlinetta at that time) with fuel injection, 0850 with carbs.
According to Bertocchi it isn't 0850 and the other cars have fi. So the car on the picture must be 0844 like I thought.

 

News about 0854 in 1:18:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=136985603#post136985603

 

Tonight I went on a little bit with the paintwork. Busy with the Cambridge Blue striping. I really have to say that 0854 as a berlinetta is the nicest, not to say the most stunning of all 330 P3/4, 412P and 330 P4 cars. The design of the paintwork is absolutely marvelous. At least in my view. Well, the blue striping emphasizes the beautiful lines of the car and the light blue front gives a nice contrast to the details in it. The rear is looking absolutely agressive with those big blue rectangular luggage boxes in combination with the soft lines of the blue panel around the tail lights. The solid blue wheels matching perfectly with the paintwork of the car. Jim, will there be an Union Jack on the nose of the car?

I can't stop watching my model while painting it, so this one will take some time to complete...

 

To answer the questions on Magnesium and Aluminum coloring, mag usually turns black when exposed to atmosphere. Aluminum stays brighter.

 

Two observations on post 231, look at how filthy that engine bay is, did they pull that car from a chicken coop after 20 years, and how many guys got pinched under that huge rear hood when that stick fell off the transmission?

 

The foregoing series of posts were ‘bugging’ me, because wasn’t able to respond at the time ....
.... so please excuse my somewhat belated reply.

Not just because I already had on file ....
.... a right-clicked and saved image of David’s earlier www.scuderia.cc version of his photo captioned as ‘0844’ ….

(from http://www.scuderia.cc/david-castelhano-collection/1967-24h-daytona/330p4-1967-1.html)

….but also, because I also have, on file, some scans of B&W photos from the '67 Daytona 24 Hours, taken in the pit garages by the late Jabby Crombac. These show both the works P4’s and #0844 with their transmissions still in situ, and removed. Unfortunately, I am unable to post these photos to substantiate that statement (anywhere in the public domain), because, not only are they are copyrighted images, belonging to a collection, but because they were sent to me on the understanding that I would keep them to myself.

Interestingly though, unless I’m mistaken, the person working on #0844’s transmission, in David’s photo, looks like Guilio Borsari (from behind) – the Ferrari works chief mechanic.

I may be wrong about that.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Nice to see you

 

Thanks, Paul ... you too.

 

(Sorry Jim .... I couldn't resist this one. )

.... Unlike some of their choice of photos / photo captioning in the same Wiki article:

'A Ferrari P bearing David Piper’s signature at a historic race meeting in Pretoria, South Africa.'

I left the comment underneath:

* Sorry, I would have edited your photo caption if I could, instead, but ....
* The green car in your photo is actually a ZA-built Bailey-Edwards Ferrari P4 REPLICA, powered by a (Shock Horror) BMW V-12 !!

Surprised no-one has corrected the mistake, or deleted my comment, yet.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I'm honestly not sure, Jim.
Most of the photos I have on file are B&W, and the few colour images are blurred, or possibly the centres are caked in brake dust.
The gold centre / light metallic blue outer rims was used as a method of distinguishing 'customer team' wheels (from the works') at the '67 Le Mans 24 Hours, as we've discussed, way back.
However, at Brands Hatch, #0854's wheels / rims (what you can see of them) appear to be a much 'deeper' light blue - possibly as if they had been re-painted to match the car's Cambridge Blue stripe / noseband. The light blue area on the rear wheels also goes much deeper into the (dished) part of the rims, too, compared to Le Mans. I'd err on the side of caution for now ....
.... and when I get a chance, I'll have a word with a man who probably has some photos that can confirm it either way.

 

Crikey, Jim - you got that fixed quick.

 

In the short film about the BOAC 500 1967 on Google Video you can clearly see that the spokes were blue too. I was curious myself because of my work on my 1:18 replica of your car.

Look at your car on the Ferrari trailer after 1 min 26 sec of film...

Regards,
Wouter Bekker