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09 Cali Intake Manifold Trumpets or Velocity Stack Altering?

Discussion in 'California/Portofino' started by JohnBradleyDaniels, Jan 10, 2019 at 9:13 PM.

  1. JohnBradleyDaniels

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    Oct 16, 2011
    131
    Spartanburg SC
    This is a question that I have wondered if any one has tried and has facts to report on. I noticed the F430's with the F136E and F136ED engine has very short (1/2') velocity stacks in its manifold, yet the ED has 503hp.

    My '09 California with the F136IB,and the rest till '12, have these 90 degree arched velocity stacks that are about 4-6" but the car only puts out 454hp.

    I do understand the variations in the engines but I was wondering if any one has removed the "trumpets" from the California manifold and to what affect? Positive or Negative or no change? I suspect loss of some torque, more engine sound and better top-end.

    Anyone have any hands on experience?

    PS-Mine is far from stock already.
    Cheers!
     
  2. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    John, you obviously know a few things about tuning, exhaust tuning. FWIW, I owned a Cali30 that is also "far from stock" and I have done some analysis of tuning for the Cali.

    IMO, what you say is generally true but first, I want to clarify one of your points.

    The F136 ED engine is actually used in the 430 Scuderia/16M, not the F430 (there is no "F" in the 430 Scuderia name). Here's a excerpt from a handy Wikipedia treatise on the F136. Performance differences between the F430, Scuderia/16M and the Cali, Cali30 arise from many differences, and the exhaust manifold is just one of them.

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    IMO, the performance difference between the 2009-2012 (2008-2011 production) Cali and the 430 Scuderia may be considered as 2 performance steps, not 1. The Cali30 bridged the first step and got the Cali to F430 power, partly by a change in design to its exhaust manifold.

    Here is the Cali30 exhaust parts list. Notice there are 2 exhaust manifold parts listed for each side of the engine. The 2nd part points to a "note A" which is a list of chassis numbers for cars in the 2012-2014 production series that do NOT use the modification. By that, I believe some 2012 cars were not Cali30 because the model change occurred in the middle of 2012 production. My Cali30's chassis number is not on that list.

    Please note that "Note A" also applies to several mounting brackets (not shown here), so there appear to be exterior physical differences between the Cali30 and Cali exhaust manifolds.

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    Here is the parts list for the 2008-2011 production Cali. There is just one part listed for the exhaust manifold.

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    Next, I'd like to expand on your observations on differences between the F136 E and F136 ED exhaust manifolds. Here is the F430's F136 E. The F430 manifold has a heat shield so it's hard to determine how restrictive it is vs the Cali's, which are not covered by a heat shield.

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    And here is the Scuderia/16M's F136 ED, and despite the heat shields, they do seem to show shorter exhaust trumpets than the F430's.

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    I was able to find photos of actual F136 E and F136 ED exhaust manifolds. These do look a bit different but not as much as the drawings would suggest.

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    Here's a 2014 exhaust manifold, also right hand side. It has no heat shield.

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    I have to agree the F430 exhaust manifold does look different from the 430 Scuderia/16M's but the heat shields make it difficult to compare details.

    OTOH, I think it would help to clarify other performance differences between the Cali, Cali30, F430 and the Scuderia/16M:
    • the F430 and Scuderia/16M are mid-rear engine layouts so their exhaust paths are much shorter, whereas the Cali/Cali30 are front-mid engine so their exhaust has to come from the front, resulting in much longer exhaust path with inherently greater exhaust resistance, reduced power.
    • the F136IB and F136IH of the Cali and Cali30 are both direct injection, which actually increases power output, compensates somewhat for their longer exhaust paths
    • the length of the exhaust path, presence of H- or X- pipes affect tuning of the exhaust manifold because the timing of exhaust back pressure will change vis-à-vis the ignition timing in each combustion chamber
    • the F136 ED exhaust does not employ an exhaust valve and its exhaust goes through the muffler 100% of the time, so both exhaust pipes are used 100% of the time, providing a freer-flowing exhaust path compared to the F430 which can close the muffler's exhaust path and thus only use 2 exhaust pipes instead of 4.
    There are probably other differences.

    Finally, here's a definite difference between the exhaust manifold of a Cali vs a Cali30. You can guess which photo shows the outlet of the exhaust manifold of a Cali30 vs a Cali.

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    And just for comparison, here's a photo of the outlet of an F430 exhaust manifold

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    In concluding I think you may have a point in the Scud's shorter exhaust manifold trumpets and this design detail would likely improve the Cali's exhaust manifold performance, once the rest of the exhaust system is also re-tuned to work with the new manifold.

    However, I suspect Ferrari redesigned the Cali's exhaust manifold using less-costly-to-implement details. Actually, I think if they just increased the diameter of all the piping, from the manifold to the exhaust tips, it would also likely do the trick.

    Cheers!
     
  3. JohnBradleyDaniels

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    Oct 16, 2011
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    Spartanburg SC
    Hi! Excellent collection of information that should be stickey'd!
    I should have mentioned I already have a full aftermarket catless exhaust with headers and the lightweight Tubi rear sections and 400lbs of weight reduction. I am actually exploring the intake portion to open it up to breath more, but these pictures should help.
    The first photo is the F430 or 430 Intake Lower Plenum and the second is the California Lower Intake Plenum with the curved "velocity stacks". I know that altering the length will loose some torque but will allow more hp and top end. I have considered dynoing the current setup and then remove them, dyno again, and then a potential 3rd option I'm working on...
    I believe the sound will be killer removing/altering these, but I'm also looking at having several throttle bodies bored out and tunes done to accompany them. The California "arches" seem a bit less performance based and more for a daily use noise reduction and probably aid in fuel mileage. I appreciate you responding and helping me work through some ideas and theories. Cheers!
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  4. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    John, I appreciate your comments and find your projects personally very interesting. We have both been trying to optimize the performance of our cars and I'm happy to share ideas.

    Since your emphasis is on engine performance I presume your are not necessarily interested in general vehicle performance. Having said that, here are my comments.

    The F430 engine is dry sump to lower CG so it sits much lower in the rear engine compartment and it has more head room for vertical stacks. The Cali is wet sump to improve friendliness, ease of use; so it has to make room for the sump and its engine sits much higher. It has no extra head room for vertical stacks (trumpets). However, a certain length of trumpets is still required to finesse and smooth out the air flow so the Cali engine designers introduced a graceful curve to the trumpets.

    The F430 stacks won't fit the Cali unless you introduce a hump on the hood. Keep in mind the F136 E also does not produce more HP than the F136 IH. So it's unlikely the F430 manifold will provide much improvement to the F136 IH or the F136 IB.

    IMO, what might improve the air intake efficiency in the F136H and F136 IB are different size/shape of trumpet openings for each row of trumpets in the Cali. I've attached a diagram below to explain.

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    The air flow inside the Cali intake manifold cover is compromised (by lack of head room) so the air reaching the trumpets at the back of the engine has to go around the trumpet(s) in front. This probably creates turbulence and thus progressively reduces the velocity of air entering the trumpets to the rear of the engine.

    This problem does not exist in the F430 because the openings of its intake trumpets are more-or-less flush with the floor of the intake manifold cover chamber.

    The F430 intake manifold cover appears to be purposely made tall, in order to allow freer air flow to the trumpets at the back of the chamber. So as I said above, given you cannot add engine head room in the Cali's engine compartment, it may improve performance (more balanced breathing across combustion chambers) to have different size/shape trumpets for each row of intake trumpets. Of course, implementing such an improvement is much easier said than done. I suspect the best way is to use fluid dynamics to measure or calculate the differential flow patterns and rates to trumpets on each row and then modify the shape/opening sizes to determine potential improvements.

    If Ferrari had meant the Cali to be its "halo car", I imagine it would have applied this level of sophistication in engine design to the Cali. As it was though, the Cali was only meant to fit a certain performance niche within the contemporary Ferrari line up and such refinements would have made no sense.
     
  5. AD211

    AD211 Karting

    Aug 19, 2017
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    Andy Davis
    Side track on the thread. Ok guys...for an unmodified 2010 model driven locally on occasional weekends, what mods do you suggest?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  6. JohnBradleyDaniels

    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 16, 2011
    131
    Spartanburg SC
    Hi 4th, My plan is to actually acquire a spare set of trumpets (new $157 for set of 4 x2 from Ricambi) or some used ones from John at Ferrparts and replicate the 430 style. Then the throttle bodies would be my next project and find a tuner to work with. All about power to weight! I'm going to catch flak for this statement but I have floated selling the Cali engine or the 612 engine and dropping a M275 AMG 6.0 Bi-Turbo Renntech engine with 650hp/780ft.lb but I'm not ready to Frankenstein one as it doesn't feel right. Maybe on another as I'm seeing more come available with mechanical problems probably from lack of maintenance??
    I read a memo that the Cali was detuned for marketing purposes because Ferrari didn't want an "entry level" vehicle to be able to compete with the 458, but how true that is who knows.

    AD211: I personally would recommend the Novitec Suspension first and then larger and wider wheels. After lowering and installing 21" front and 22'x12' rear wheels I can take a 270 degree turn (I-26 to I-85) at 67+mph without the lateral G's causing my wife discomfort....and she would definitely let me know! LOL! I think the exhaust would probably be less beneficial in terms of cost to perceived value, however I have the Tubi Titanium rear mufflers because weight is something I'm trying to keep down. The stainless Tubi's sound awesome also for several thousand less and are still a bit lighter than stock.
    Cheers!

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  7. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    #7 4th_gear, Jan 11, 2019 at 10:49 PM
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019 at 11:00 PM
    Actually I was the one who made the "...Cali was detuned for marketing purposes because Ferrari didn't want an "entry level" vehicle to be able to compete with the 458..." assertion. By detuning I meant made slower than it was capable of. Ferrari then actually turned a Cali up a notch when it felt challenged to show it wasn't slow. They then brought out the Cali30, and purposely did not make too big a deal about it. Anyway, my comments on detuning had to do with not optimizing what the car already had or could easily have had and not to do with needing a new intake manifold or a different engine.

    I think you should first formulate a clear, verifiable image of the car you want to create before you take concrete serious risks like pulling the engine from a perfectly good car. Car companies always make models and test mules before they actually make a new model. Mods like wheels and exhaust systems are clear and verifiable because companies like Novitec have tested them, built them many times and have a reputation to keep. Swapping engines would be risky experiments without any clear means to know if you would even like the end results, should the mod actually work.

    Actually, if you like AMG engines you might consider just buying one of the new AMG GT roadsters. I'm not an AMG fan but the roadsters at least don't look like their regular gangsta cars. OTOH if you really enjoy tinkering and this is your first engine-swap project, maybe you should cut your teeth on a less expensive Mazda or a Corvette first. I've seen some really nice ones on YouTube. I don't know if a 612 V12 would even fit a Cali because 612 wheelbase is 11" longer, even without a folding roof. So space for a V12 might be very tight and the 612 also weighs over 4000 lbs, again without the heavy retractable metal roof. To retain the Cali's handling, the engine has to fit behind the front strut towers.

    The thing is, both the 612 and the Cali are Ferrari assets so if Ferrari could have made a nice metal convertible roof V12, it would have made one by now because their exclusive clients regularly pay them to build custom 1-off cars. Even its newest super-expensive custom V12 SP cars are roof-less targas.
     
  8. JohnBradleyDaniels

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    Oct 16, 2011
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    Spartanburg SC
    I couldn't bring myself to swap this one. I'd just buy a salvage if I was going to do that. I have had an S600 V12 Bi-Turbo Rennetech 625hp, E550 Coupe with the 4.7 Bi-Turbo 480hp and an AMG55 Superchrged to 510hp but they just weren't sporty enough. Plenty of power but that's why I went to a 550 Maranello in 2011 then the 612 and Cali more recently. Always looking for the next challenge!
     
  9. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    Michael
    You have had some interesting toys and interesting ideas. I hope you find a good project to play with. Here's a YouTube video I really enjoyed watching. It's by Matt Farah (TheSmokingTire). He does a lot of neat video reviews of interesting cars.

     

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