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Discussion in '360/430' started by #PoweredbySpeedDigital, Mar 14, 2019.
Dale, your post is incomplete. Let me help you.
Don't insult others. You need to add .........
Yes, DCT's fit your situation perfectly, but I'm not really interested in tracking that much - I actually use a track day as a final shakedown of cars I've had restored - and I prefer to have a manual shifter in my sports car - a 360 - and paddle shift in my GT - shopping for a 612 or FF to replace the 456M I sold. The 456M was actually the easiest car ever to drive on a track because of the automatic: Go pedal/slow pedal. And really, the computers are better at shifting than drivers are now, so why not just go full auto? That's where all of this ends up.
.. With the driver not doing anything... Automed driving is the final conclusion. Yes it will be more effective, efficient, faster shifting, safer, yada yada but more fun? No.
I was lucky enough have personally driven this car and it drives and shifts fantastic. So engaging and visceral. If you want a manual Scud or otherwise, this is the way to go. It's got cool factor all over it.
So like the manual conversion 430 Scuderia, will the manual conversion 458 have no Ediff, no ABS, no F1 Trac/traction control, no electronic suspension control and a non functioning mannetino?
Recent 991.2 gt3 manual vs pdk test have shown that with a pro driver, the speed difference is quite small, maybe a tenth or two per lap... and of course the manual may feel a touch faster during the pull because it's lighter with the same horsepower. So what you enjoy driving more is really what matters.
Also the fuel economy is a common misconception, of course the computer can be programmed to shift and lug the engine in the most efficient way possible for the epa test, but if you use the paddles and shift at the same point you would have with a stick, the lighter manual car will edge it out on fuel economy.
But really neither is "better"... objectively we'd all drive Priuses because they probably have the lowest TCO per mile. What matters with performance cars is what you enjoy more since that's the only reason to have them.
There is no technical limitations that gated conversion brings which prevents any systems working on a Scud or 458.
The only thing they needed to complete (which I didn't have time to finish for 100% for them) was the abs unit variant coding which prevents it operating (and thus switchable abs modes). The ediff and suspension and full Scud engine including ion sensing working just fine.
When I get completed doing Swiss Army Knife I'll take a look and finish it off. Just hasn't been I priority for me as I didn't get paid a dime on that project so its best effort.
Should call it Italian Army knife...
I trust you would know best, but that is not how Art was quoted in one of the many articles where the car is profiled:
"Bartosik is waiting on a bit of software from Bosch that will allow the mannetino switch on the steering wheel to function as stock, dialing up the car's different driving modes. For now, it is disabled entirely. “You have zero driver's aids right now, so be careful,” he warns. Eh, ABS is overrated anyway. "
What transmission are they using? Last I heard in one of \\\arts original threads (IIRC the first 430 conversion thread) he was planning on using a 430 tranny.
**this project is miles over my feeble mechanical expertise. I have never worked on a 458.***
It seems to me, this will be a monumental task and an order of magnitude more difficult than a 360 or 430 conversion. 360 & 430 at least have original 3 pedal parts that can be found.
even aside from the electronics they will have to contend with:
- it 458 tranny is used is it even possible to shift it with a manual linkage.
- where to source the 3 pedal parts and linkages?
If we (as humans) sent men to the moon 50 years ago) I believe this is possible Sponsor would need to have deep pockets.
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Guess they didn't learn from the flop of the Scuderia manual transmission conversion...maybe they should try and convert the 458 to an F1 this time around...
Are you kidding me? A flop, really?
... Depends on what you define as a flop as most me included had never heard of EAG Group or Art before their Scud and now I know they are doing a tonne of 430 gated conversions on the back of the publicity so it's not all how it seems.
To be fair, Scuds are barely moving unless they’re sub $170k, manual or F1. This car did bid over $200k.
A stripeless black Scud with funky colored seats is a sub $170k car today.
I actually believe they get more press from the hateraids.... if everyone loved it there would be no inter web drama!
I’m sure it takes no skill to pull these non factory swaps on an exotic...... just pull out your 1/2” and pliers and get er done lol.
I wish these guys all the success and can’t wait to see what art and the guys cook up next———————)))). It’s going to really stir the purist knickers in a bunch.
Well...how much were they trying to sell it for initially? How much are they trying to sell it for now?
I am well aware of EAG, I live in san Antonio.
Most people dont have their knickers in a bunch from converting to manual transmission,
but rather it's more of the business aspect of how they're trying to excessively hype up and market this car to try and get crazy numbers for it...
I feel that their passion to build this car is greatly overshadowed by their greed, which is a shame.
That to me is a flop.
Take a close look at video.
Still has original brake pedal. And paddles are still present.
I don’t doubt they will attempt the build. However I think this car at the time of the video is still a functioning 458 with DCT, with false clutch pedal and mock MT console placed on the floor.
(For the record I really do want to see this project completed.)
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Unsure why there is so much dislike/hate towards EAG and Art, seems to be doing things that people would love to get done.
I love the critics— correction I’d love to see the master level auto werks completed by the critics.... I suspect there are none
That is a pointless comparison...no one is arguing the ability of Art and his crew, the question is the legitimacy or need of such a project. Just opinions...and we know how those go.
We also know you are a big supporter of Art and EAG, but they really don't need it. I hardly believe the haters impact EAG, just increases traffic on his videos, articles and website...in fact I think Art revels in the haters, and only makes him push on with his projects, good for him.
I’m ready for the person who successfully did this to step up offer some guidance of technical merit.
It is this bold modification that I’m interested in.
The rest of the retail bench racing—- eh not so much. You find that in all Marques. Burning up bandwidth.
Diff strokes—/ just have fun.
Not sure what market you've been monitoring but if you're seeing red/white examples going for sub 170s send them my way, I will buy them all and flip them for an instant 20-40k easy.
Yes. That's why I said a stripeless black Scud with funky colored seats is a sub $170k car today, implying that this manual conversion is worth $30-40k more than its F1 counterpart since it was bidded above $200k and with lil info on it at the time. This debunks the claim the conversion devalued the car. Devaluing it would put it sub $150k. But I agree with others here, EAG did not get the price they thought they could get, hence a failed project from that perspective. Lots of exposure for them though. Not sure how many conversion services they sold since.
WOW ! Fantastic !
Let the haters hate.... who cares.
Most new Ferrari buyers are status drones.
When RUF converted the first 911 Turbos the purists came out in droves.
Now "purists" would sell their grandmother for the Yellow Bird.
A manual shift 458 ?
Hats off for the effort.
They stepped up to the plate rather than sitting in the seats.
Good on them.
Its a game not an inning.
I just want to point out that the OP's post count still stands as "2".