#108860... What happens when you get a "bargain" 355. | FerrariChat

#108860... What happens when you get a "bargain" 355.

Discussion in '348/355' started by Markphd, Nov 26, 2013.

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  1. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    So it sounds like a nightmare, and if I were not me, perhaps it would be. Personally I love wrenching on a car, couldn't afford a metric ton of Ferrari, but always wanted one. So I took the plunge not knowing what to look for... and will probably pay for it... eventually.

    Seems like the motor is burning a bit of oil, the cats were fragged, passenger header was completely burned through, and now it sounds like a gypsy is playing tamborine over my clutch/flywheel (any guesses what that will be, lol).

    So you're thinking of getting a used 355, I say do it... BUT make sure you get a really good PPI as there is no such thing as a free lunch with the 355. My 355 was clearly poorly maintained, mind you, I got it cheap but in retrospect would have been dollars ahead spending $30k more upfront on a well documented example. I do all my own work, so that's the good news. I know what I can't do and whom to ship it to when doing the critical machine work, so I still feel good about my purchase.

    In the end, I am glad I got this "driver", it hasn't been a well maintained example and I will feel no guilt in making it run well enough to suit my tastes. I feel like this poor car, despite not having deep pockets myself, was fortunate enough to get a second lease on life.
     
  2. whyte

    whyte Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2006
    409
    Merritt Island, FL
    Full Name:
    John C
    Hang in there! When it's done you will know it was fixed properly, and you won't have to worry about what was fixed and what wasn't. That's worth a lot of peace of mind.

    I'm sure the 355 guys will chime in, but I bet the bad header leaned you out and messed up the cat. Squealing is hopefully just a worn throw out bearing.

    Just my opinion, but you might want to strongly consider getting a professional involved before you spend too much time wrenching. You wouldn't want to spend time and money to replace parts, fluids, etc. and then have your new headers get fried again, or end up having to pull the motor after spending the money on oil, coolant, brake fluid, etc. I won't even mention the normal major concerns that you'll want to check.

    A few hours from a good Ferrari mechanic with years of experience on these cars may be one of the best investments you can make at this point. While it won't tell you everything, you will get some perspective that you can use to make some informed decisions about how to proceed in the most economical way possible.

    And if you decide to just tear into it, I'm sure you'll find plenty of help on here as well. :)

    Good luck and keep us posted.
     
  3. stevew3765

    stevew3765 Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2012
    716
    Tulsa, Oklahoma USA
    Full Name:
    Steve Wool
    C'mon man. You can't create a post like this without a pic.lol
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,272
    socal
    Gee on other threads you said the car ran really good. With all that damage it could not of run well at all.
     
  5. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    #5 Markphd, Nov 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It actually does run well, I think you would be surprised. If we are just talking about it making power, revving freely, and idling well.

    It idles at 1000 rpm, as smoothly as I would expect it to idle. I stand on the throttle and north of 5,000 it starts to come alive, I blip the throttle and RPM rise is sharp and fast.

    It does all these things reasonably well, however, it also smokes when above 6,000-6,500 RPM, oil smoke. I don't like it, it's pretty noticible in the rear view mirror. I think it's coming from (surprise) the passenger side bank. What has likely happened is that a valve or two has gotten damaged in the great header meltdown.

    I will post compression numbers as soon as I do them, unfortunately I am also in the midst of defending a disseration, so I might not get to it before I leave for Bethesda to defend my Ph.D., which is more important than my Ferrari. As far as pictures... I am about 50 lbs heavier in these pictures than I am now, stress will do that to you.

    As far as a Ferrari Mechanic... No such thing on Guam. Not even remotely close, I am here without a net to catch me when I fall.
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  6. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    So what have I done?

    I replaced the headers, exhaust, and there are no more cats. The SDECU's are gone and in it's place is a custom gauge that feeds the ECU the needed voltages. The ECU has been programmed to ignore the exhaust bypass valve code. Air injection system is gone. Exhaust bypass is an electric set of free flow dumps, when not just open, the exhaust flows through a stainless steel muffler.

    The exhaust actually is much better than the factory craptastic system Ferrari put in place. I understand why they did what they did, but it's unreliable. My setup flat won't break and saves a ton of weight. If I wanted to actuate the valves like the factory setup at 4,000 RPM, I could. I prefer the ability to determine whether the exhaust will or will not be open... simple as pushing a button now.

    Mark
     
  7. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
    Moderator

    Oct 1, 2008
    40,190
    Huntsville, AL., USA
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    I understand completely. Good luck Mark!

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  8. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    #8 Markphd, Nov 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks!!!

    See what I mean... 50 lbs is a lot!
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  9. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
    Moderator

    Oct 1, 2008
    40,190
    Huntsville, AL., USA
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    I was quite happy with my weight at about 185-190 or so, but was around 200-205 during much of my PhD studies. I'm currently at around 225-230 after it just shot up following news my PhD award and I'm having some difficulty losing it. I think the sudden removal of a lot of stress is really what piled on the pounds for me. It was weird.

    If you're willing to share, I'd love to hear about your thesis topic - whether on the board or via PM. :)

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  10. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    #10 Markphd, Nov 27, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
    Would you prefer crow instead of turkey? ;)


    Sorry there is no real video, but does this Ferrari 355 sound like it does not run all that well to you?

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfJZRpvpdgY[/ame]

    I do apologize about the video, I just used my cell phone to record this on the way home from work.
     
  11. GTO Joe

    GTO Joe Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 15, 2013
    1,002
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Joseph Troutwine
    You have such a great outlook on this car, it should be happy to have you as the owner. I look forward to your posts on updates.
     
  12. apex97

    apex97 Formula Junior
    Owner

    Nov 25, 2006
    593
    Stockbridge, GA
    Full Name:
    Edward Zabinski
    Great that you are enjoying returning your car to life! I am usually the biggest cheerleader for these cars and have posted many times that the valve guide issues are way overblown, and they are.

    Having said that, with the car having run a long time of a cracked header and clogged cats...and you mentioned it smoking, I think you are going to find some bad valves and/or guides on that bank.

    Since you seem to do your own wrenching Its not a really that big of a deal once you pull the motor for a major service. Just send the heads out to be rebuilt/repaired and bolt them back on.

    I would do a compresion/leakdown test and then decide how long you want to drive it before you do that job..who knows, it might even be OK!
     
  13. saw1998

    saw1998 F1 Veteran

    Jun 8, 2008
    8,237
    San Antonio, Texas
    Full Name:
    Scott
    #13 saw1998, Nov 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,673
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    To tell you the truth, that video with the sound, it seems like the low oomph is missing from the sound. Does not sound like mine, or the healthy 355 I am around.
     
  15. RWP137

    RWP137 Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2013
    1,613
    AZ
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Ditching the cats solves a lot of the 355 issues.
     
  16. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    #16 Markphd, Nov 27, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
    I think that's the cell phone, it's got plenty of low oomph sound... I will try to get a better recording. Now, while I have heard other F355's and mine sounds similar, the custom exhaust does play a role and perhaps when compared to the name brand exhausts, maybe mine sounds different. I didn't think so, but perhaps.

    What you don't hear is it missing on a cylinder or it not accelerating smoothly and quickly. I agree that the heads, more than likely, will need a valve job given the history and that there is some damage to the motor as a result of the other neglect. Does it run perfect, I doubt it. If running perfect is what you mean by "it cannot run well", then you are correct. My definition is: I could drive it as is everyday for a week and count on it not to strand me. The car accelerates smoothly, idles reliably, generally has > 90% of the power intended, and nothing is leaking. <- Runs well.

    Can it run better, I am betting that it can... I am betting on it running much better. I imagine that I should figure out what it's pulling HP wise, but there is no dyno on Guam. I could use a standing 1/4 mile, at least that would give me an idea of how much power I am making or not making.

    Done.
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,272
    socal
    Nope! I'm not impressed at all. Let me know how well you think the car ran after you get it fully repaired and the engine properly timed. I'll save a crow for you.
     
  18. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    Hey, I will be the first to admit if I am wrong and if it runs that much better when I've gotten it all sorted out, I'll eat a big old plate of crow. However, if it is hugely down on power, I will be surprised. Factory specs puts it at a high 12 second/low 13 second 1/4 mile performing car. Which is about how fast it currently feels.

    Believe it or not, I hope you two are right, and that the car is under performing massively, all that means is that any repairs and re-work will only be more worthwhile. You both have a good deal of experience with these cars, it is more likely that I am wrong than the two of you to be wrong. We will see what shakes out... either way, at the end of the day, I still own a beautiful Ferrari that I get to drive and work on.

    To me, the most important part of the experience is the enjoyment I get from driving and working on it. I know many would not want to be bothered with the getting dirty part, but there is a certain amount of satisfaction I get from actually doing the work myself.
     
  19. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    #19 Markphd, Nov 28, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
    I might add, it's clear that the heads need to come off now. I have verified that oil is only coming from the right bank, but that tells me something with the valve/valve guides/valve seal in there is hurt for sure.

    So after I get back from the states in January and take my licensure test in February, the car will be going back into the ICU (my garage) to get the heads taken off the motor. I just have not decided who I will have do the head work yet...

    I am open to suggestions. I want to do it once, do it right, and I know that doesn't mean cheap. I was thinking there are a few good choices.
     
  20. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,789
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I agree with this, I feel the same way
     
  21. cuneo

    cuneo Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 20, 2006
    2,484
    #21 cuneo, Nov 28, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
    S&R Exotics in Indiana rebuilt my heads with new guides, two week turnaround and very good price. 15,000 miles so far and no problems. Gary Sharpe is the owner, good guy. He used to be on Fchat under the handle "enginefxr".

    Not sure if he's still in business, looks like his last web update was in 2011.
     
  22. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,673
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    I thought that Gary is not working on Ferrari anymore. If that is true, there is also a very good outfit in San Luis Obispo. Good Luck Mark.
     
  23. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    Thanks!!! I know you guys are pulling for me to do this old car some justice. Even if she is wheezing and coughing now. :)

    Mark
     

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