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125 and 159

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Townshend, Aug 7, 2006.

  1. Townshend

    Townshend F1 Veteran
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    I know Jim's 002C is the oldest Ferrari that is still around, but what happened to the 125/159s?
     
  2. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Wait until Sunday 20 August 2006 and go to Pebble Beach.
    Marcel Massini
     
  3. Townshend

    Townshend F1 Veteran
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    I will be there. My knowledge on vintage Ferraris is thin, but I thought no 125/159s were in existance, or would I be incorrect?
     
  4. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Less than two weeks till Pebble. See also my PM.
    Marcel Massini
     
  5. andrewg

    andrewg F1 Rookie
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    Marcel

    Could you please post details of this when you get back from pebble for those of us who aren't allowed to go :(


    Thanks
     
  6. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    I'am sure there will be lots of posts showing the Ferraris at Pebble Beach 2006, and Monterey, Laguna Seca, The Quail, CI, all the auctions, etc.. As said earlier, less than 2 weeks to wait.
    Marcel Massini
     
  7. Townshend

    Townshend F1 Veteran
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    And I can hardly wait! My first Pebble Concours. I will have my laptop that can be teathered to my phone to upload pics.
     
  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    I hope you will not only attend the Pebble Beach Concours. Activities start already this weekend with the Laguna Seca pre-historics. Then comes the Quail rallye Tuesday/Wednesday, the Automobilia Expo at Embassy Suites on Tuesday and Wednesday, the Monterey Jet Center party Wednesday at 5 pm, the previews of the five auctions (Christies, Bonhams, RM, Gooding, Russo & Steele), the Pebble Tour Thursday morning starting at the Polo Field, the view of the Pebble cars at Carmel Thursday lunch time, the CI and The Quail on Friday, the Glickenhaus P4/5 unveiling, the races at Laguna Seca Saturday, Pebble on Sunday and then the Gooding sale Sunday eve. At all of these events will be significant Ferraris to see. Monday in two weeks you can start chilling out, if you don't go to the Blackhawk Collection in Danville/CA then, they have open house. And on the way from Danville/Blackhawk to the SFO airport don't forget to stop by at major restorer Patrick Ottis, his collecting neighbor (wishes to remain anonymus), and then dealer Fantasy Junction. Have fun!
    Marcel Massini
     
  9. Argento

    Argento Formula Junior

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    When did 002C ownership change from Sir Anthony Bamford ?
     
  10. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

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    barchetta says bamford bought 002C 1972 and the car went to david cohen of vancouver 1978.
     
  11. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    1980 if her FIA papers are to be believed. Bamford to Cohen.

    002C will be at Quail on Friday.


    002C began as a 159 and her engine was bored out by Ferrari to a 166.
    She still has some of her 159 stampings.

    There are some that believe that after the 125's were dismantled and partially scrapped by Ferrari, Ferrari used parts of their original chassis to build two 166's at a later date, after 002C and 004C were built, but I'm not sure whether this has been proved beyond the shadow of a doubt or not.
     
  12. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    In 1978 Bamford sold the unfinished project 002 C thru Stan Nowak to William Zunkel of New York/NY and David Cohen of Vancouver, British Columbia/CDN.
    Marcel Massini
     
  13. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    #13 Marcel Massini, Aug 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's a photo.
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  14. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

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    wooow - three replies in one minute

    - by the owner of 002C
    - by the most important ferrari historian
    - and by one guy, that´s only able to read what barchetta says !

    i think i love ferrarichat!
     
  15. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
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    IIRC
    1947 01C 125 became 010I - which makes it the oldest surviving Ferrari
    1947 02C 125 became 020I - still exists
    1947 002C 159 now with JG
    1948 001S 159 - now destroyed
    Nathan
     
  16. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    Jim,
    Can you post a pic of this baby?

    Birdman
     
  17. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    Any idea where 010I is now? Will it be at Pebble too?

    There is also the "replica" that the factory built about 10 years ago, and one of the two Auto Avio 815s still exists.

    It would be great if the replica and the Auto Avio 815 also showed up at Pebble.

    To Marcel: is there any absolute proof that the 2nd Auto-Avio 815 was destroyed; I've only heard stories?



    Thanks,
    Stu
     
  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    #18 Marcel Massini, Aug 7, 2006
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    002 C in Sicily in June 2005.
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  19. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

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    #19 michael platzer, Aug 7, 2006
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    if you don´t mind i post a pic of jim´s baby ! 002C at targa florio 2005 with 0846 in the background !
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  20. Argento

    Argento Formula Junior

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    Did David Sydorick have it in '98 ?
     
  21. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Sydorick owned 002 C from October 1994 until November 2000.
    Marcel Massini
     
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    The fact that some of 01C and 02C's 125 chassis remains may have been used at a later time by Ferrari, after 002C and 004C were built, to build new cars of a totally different type with totally different chassis numbers re stamped by Ferrari only means that a portion of the chassis of 01C and 02C still exist. Unlike the two you mention 002C has had continuous existence as 002C and as David S. has pointed out when he called 004C something like the oldest original Ferrari because 004C is the oldest surviving Ferrari to have continuous existence and still retain it's original body as well. (Both 002C and 004C have their original chassis, engines, and gear boxes.) Feeling how you do I'm surprised you didn't let "The Journal of Ferrari History" know that you feel David S. and I are wrong.

    In addition to writing to Cavallino you may also want to write to Car and Driver, Phil Hill, and Road and Track who have all called 002C the oldest surviving Ferrari.

    I'm also surprised, feeling how you do, that you would consider using chassis remains to rebuild a car would still make it an original Ferrari.
     
  23. Townshend

    Townshend F1 Veteran
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    #23 Townshend, Aug 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
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    I'm not aware that Ferrari had to chop any of the chassis of 01C simply to restamp it. Perhaps you can explain which bits have been cutoff so that only "a portion of the chassis of 01C ... still exist".
    I believe that more than 80% of it exists and with a genuine Ferrari chassis stamp - which is more than one can say for some chassis that claim to be genuine Ferrari.
    Nathan
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    " Just one 125 exists today, but this is an exact replica constructed by Ferrari at vast expense during the mid 1980’s. Indeed, neither of the 125's are around today in their original form, 01 C having been heavily crashed in late 1947"

    Think of it another way. Do you think Ferrari re stamped that chassis with a different number at a later date and used that repaired/modified chassis to manufacture a new model car with a 198mm different wheelbase, different front and rear track, and a new chassis number because they felt the original car still existed?
     

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