#1451 GT Going Up For Auction

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by malcolmjl, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. carvad

    carvad Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
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    Vadim Dobrovolskyi
    Tipo 128F was a non standard engine for production California's, so how 1451 GT could entered in Le Mans in the GT category?
     
  2. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    A number of other LWB Californias also had an outside plug tipo 128F engine. 128F outside plugs engines also used in 250 GT PF Coupe, 250 GT PF Cab S2 and GT/E.

    A pic of 250 GT PF Coupe (with Comp. engine) 1743GT's chassis plate which shows the 128F stamping on the plate.

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  3. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    No matter how much money someone has - he can`t buy good taste or style!
     
  4. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

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    ^^ I love that engine. Velocity stacks. High lift. High compression. Etc.
     
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  5. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    Steve: 128DF vs. 128F engines: Basically a 128DF engine is an outside plug motor, but still with hairpin valve springs. True "F" engines use coil valve springs. Also other differences between a 128DF and a true 128F are a "D" oil sump, water pump and oil pump. True "F" engines use later versions of these parts with "F" part number prefixes. On a DF engine, the chaincase is still a "C" type unit, while a true "F" motor has a chaincase with a "F" prefix in the part number. DF engines used the ST207 distributor while true F engines had S85A units. Personally, I have not seen a set of Build Sheets using the "DF" motor identification. The factory just called them "F" on the sheets. However, if you examine the actual parts used, the differences appear. By this above definition, even though 1451 has Build Sheets labeled as a 128F, the engine is to 128DF specs.
     
  6. 375+

    375+ F1 Rookie
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    Excellent Dyke!
     
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  8. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #57 miurasv, Dec 9, 2017 at 1:44 PM
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM
    Excellent info, Dyke. Thank you very much for your reply. As there is such a big difference between a 128D engine and 128DF and 128F, do you think that 1451 could have initially been built with a 128D engine as the chassis plate says? Could it possibly have run at Le Mans with the 128D inside plug motor and then went back to the factory to have the engine replaced with the 128F (DF spec) outside plug engine but the chassis plate remained stating 128D before being shipped to NART/Chinetti/Grossman? It's been stated that 1451 wasn't properly finished for Bob Grossman to race it at Le Mans having an unproperly painted body and rags on the seats. It's also been stated that some of the 250 GT LWB Interim Berlinettas initially had inside plug engines that were replaced with outside plug engines at the factory. I believe one such LWB Interim example may be 1519GT which has the 128DF engine, yet the plate states 128D. Although the Classiche report says the engine on 1519 has not been replaced and is the original unit I think that means since it last left the factory as it also states the disc brakes on it are original and were not replaced but this car initially had drum brakes that were replaced with discs at the factory.
     
  9. carvad

    carvad Formula Junior

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    Vadim Dobrovolskyi
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  10. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    Steve: 1451 ran Le Mans with the 128DF engine. Engine completed June 13th, dynoed June 14th, car completed June 15th, Le Mans June 20-21. Typical of the Italians, everything at the last minute. As for 1519, engine completed Sept 5th, dynoed Sept 7th, car completed Sept 16th, converted to disc brakes March 3, 1960. 1519 does not have a "complete" 128F engine, but DOES have coil valve springs. Also, my error from previous post, 1519 Build Sheets for engine are labeled 128DF. As is typical of the day, little consistency in record keeping.
     
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  11. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    Many thanks again, Dyke. So 1451 and 1519 never had inside plug 128D engines fitted and the 128D stampings on the chassis plates on both cars are in error?
     
  12. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    Steve: I would not say the chassis plates are "in error", rather that is how the plates were stamped by the factory. Probably the man who stamped the plates was not totally understanding of the technical variances in the new engine configuration.
     
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  13. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    Thank you, Dyke.

    Don't know if true, I read in a Conceptcarz article that Grossman blew the engine of 1451 up at Watkins Glen in 1959 and was replaced. They must have repaired the blown up engine as it's described as matching numbers.
     
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  15. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie
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    Oh no....what a pity...
     

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