Specifically, my comment to you was that the monthly lease payment would not approach the $12,000+ that you claimed. In fact, you went so far as to say "Maybe more. Guaranteed, count on it!". Well, I think that we can finally agree that your "Guaranteed" statement was not even close to accurate. After all, your newly researched number of $246,182 translates to a monthly payment of $6833. This a full 43 percent lower than your original claim, and hardly qualifies as a rounding error. I'm not trying to pick on you, but if you take an unusually strong stand, you should be able to back it up. Also, your last ditch sarcasm stating "Tim, go lease away!! Sounds awesome." is inappropriate to the discussion, and irrelevant. I pointed out your grossly inaccurate information (for the benefit of those who accepted it with blind faith), and have never expressed my personal opinion relative to leasing. Instead, I've attempted to dispel some of the leasing myths (and misinformation) so that people can better understand their choices. Tim
It is legal and you are probably leasing through Porsche credit. I used to lease also. But today, it's a lot more expensive than financing and or paying cash.
My $12000 comment was inaccurate based on that calculator and assuming the lessor has A credit. It's really established nothing and I wouldn't hang my hat on it if I were you. I take a strong stance because I have the experience to do so. Nobody has yet to prove to me how leasing a Ferrari is better than financing.
Been playing with that calculator some more. Have you looked at the cap reduction down payment and how much it grows with each level of progressively bad credit? Down payment of $113K with bad credit.
I give up...time for me to move on to more productive things. Maybe I'll take the 16M out for a long overdue evening drive. Tim
I know that everybody doesn't have an 850 FICO score, but most Ferrari owners probably have good to perfect credit. Whether you drive a 308 and pay for maintenance or shell out big cash for an Italia, chances are the majority has no credit problems if they can afford things like those. On the 113k down payment number...who with bad credit has 113k for a down payment?? That is just not even worth posting.
Please do go for that drive, send pics! I need just a bit of a shove......Scott and I are both going back and forth on 16m/scud vs 458.
If you want to finance your Ferrari, leasing is clearly the best option. The car is a depreciating asset - leasing allows you to hedge against all of the financial negatives of car ownership. -You don't have to pay all of the sales tax. -You have a guaranteed "buyer" at the end of the term. -You only pay for actual depreciation (or less) + tax. If the residual is too high, you turn the car back in (you come out ahead). If it's too low, you sell the car for a profit and earn back some of your payments (you come out even). -You enjoy all of the above benefits while maximizing your cash flow. Leasing is a superior option even to buying outright when the ownership duration is short (3 years or less) since commonly the interest paid < extra sales tax paid.
Unless you live in commie Illinois where you have to pay the entire sales tax (10% in Chicago) on the sale price,regardless of the length of the lease. Btw,lease payment consists of depreciation,tax AND interest on the entire amount.
You aren't only paying depreciation. The payment is much higher with a lease than financing. Did you do the math? Leasing companies are in business to make a profit. What do I care? I paid cash.
If they're all so loaded, they wouldn't be financing their Ferrari's. Did you see the post earlier where someone stated that 70% of Ferrari's are leased?
I didn't say that they are "all" loaded. I said that they (we) more than likely have good credit. And if they are loaded maybe they got there buy not spending 325k at once and leasing here and there, or all the time possibly.
Certainly no rush for the Scud. They are readily available. Again, I find the posts regarding leasing very interesting. I guess I am a financial conservative. For me, I just wouldn't want it if I couldn't just pay for it and be done with it. Probably not the best way to use $, and you are putting it into a depreciating item, but with leasing and other financing, you have the depreciation to deal with as well as interest, so to me, it costs more to have it. Maybe that reasoning is only good if you keep the car...which I always say I'm going to do, and never seem to
HAHA!! Leasing is the better deal? How so? Leasing a $325K car for 3 years will cost you $260K total and then you turn the car in. How is that better than paying cash????? Please explain and be specific! Here's the last thread we had on the subject. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301601&highlight=leasing+ferrari
So now your working off 260k for a lease? What about your original $12,000 a month? 260k is way under 432k. (12k x 36) I never said that leasing was the better option btw. Im not trying to be an ass about it. I bought my car for cash as I thought it was the best option for me. Everyone is in a different financial situation and if 70% of customers are actually leasing their vehicles than it must be making some sort of financial sense. The people that buy these cars are anything but naive. Just curious but how did you come up with the 260k. I'm not saying your wrong or right but I just want to know if that number would be the actual amount on a 325k car. Not all the cars cost that. The sticker on my 430 coupe was 202k. So in that case the payments couldn't equal 260k.
Check the Amazon Leasing Calculator. Put in any amount. Add the downpayment and all monthly payments and see what the total is. It's crazy. I was wrong about the $12K a month BASED ON THAT CALCULATOR. But I still stand by the $12K a month on a $325K car if you add together all payments and the down payment. I have one friend who leases exotics. He does so because he has a high monthly income and horrible credit. He never saves and therefore goes through spells of being completely broke to having huge months. He's a maniac.
Note where I wrote, "If you want to finance your Ferrari." Interest is a factor whether you lease or buy (take out a loan). Buying cash is the better option when the buyer holds onto the car for a long time. For short term ownership (36 months or less), most leases will end up being cheaper overall with less hassle at sale-time. Unless the residual is zero and/or the rate is incredibly high, it is mathematically impossible for your lease payment to be higher than your finance payment over a similar term and down payment. As far as leasing company profit is concerned, the leasing company's income is basically paid out of the sales tax savings (unless you live in Illinois, as absent pointed out).
Checked it out. Not a bad calculator. And to think this all started by someone asking the price of a particular 16M. I think we're all crazy.
Here's the calculator http://www.amazonleasing.com/financing.asp Try it out. Add all monthly payments plus the down payment and explain in detail how this is a smart financial move and how it's "saving you money" either short or long term.
$325,000 Purchase 3 year lease A credit (which nobody doing this will have) Down payment= $30,898.00 Monthly Payment= $6,313.40 Total of 36 monthly payments= $227,282.40 Plus down payment of $30,898= $258,180.40 Take the total divided by 36 months and you're at $7171,67 PER MONTH! So after 3 years, you've spent $258,180.40 on this car plus all the maintenance and you just drop it off at the leasing company. Difference between $325,000.00 and $258,180.40= $66,819.60 So the leasing company just bought a 3 year old 16M for $66,819.60 Raise your hand if you think this is a smart move. Raise your hand if you think the leasing company only makes money on the money saved from taxes.
It's actually 34 payments (down payment includes 1st payment + a deposit equal to one payment). Total cost is $245,553.60. That's still significantly higher than buying in cash (approximately $52,000 more out-of-pocket in the worst-case scenario, assuming the residual is on-point and you're going to sell in 3 years). Using the numbers from that calculator, leasing is definitely not attractive - as with all financing, it becomes a better idea as the rate decreases.
Ok back to the original topic, it has been confirmed that the 16m at FoLI was indeed a typo.....makes the points leading up to the lease debate moot. Happy New Year all!
No way. It MIGHT be the best option for a given circumstance but it is not CLEARLY the best option. EDIT: oops sorry, I overlooked the "If you want to finance" part. Still: a) leases are highly mileage sensitive. this might not matter for a ferrari. b) if you don't have a cash flow issue than self-financing (ie, paying cash) is ALMOST ALWAYS the best option; what you lose in the earning power of that cash is almost certainly less than the cost of the lease. Now consider buying a house in the US. The reason it's such a good move is not because of the appreciation of the house, it's because the interest is deductible on a mortgage. There's a huge tax incentive, on top of easy and cheap leverage. Likewise, the reason leasing a normal car is so attractive is that for business use, 100% of the cost is a write-off. But when you own a car the depreciation you can write off (tax-wise, not the car's value depreciation) is limited. With a Ferrari it's not such a great deal because you're not going to get away with writing off the entire amount as the IRS doesn't look kindly on that, but a partial write-off combined with the cash flow benefit MIGHT make it a better deal for folks who own their own business. One of the reasons so many folks lease a Ferrari (maybe, if we are to believe the anecdotal numbers here) is likely because so many Ferrari owners are successful business owners. I didn't look but I bet the calculator doesn't consider the tax advantages of a lease. You have to factor that in, as well as some kind of judgement about cash flow, to really say if a lease is better or not. For an individual there's no tax advantage to a lease so in that case there seems to be no question about it. uh-huh. Another thing you're doing with a lease is betting that the leasing company isn't getting the residual right. If the market value of the car ends up being much less than the financing cost is too cheap and you are benefitting.
