1952 Ferrari 212 SN 0197EL

And hanging an Enzo body on the chassis might improve further?

My own thought is that a crayon moustache would improve the Mona Lisa. Anyone got directions to the Louvre?

OK, perhaps Marcel's too strict with jailing whoever destroyed the original car. Could we compromise on a simple public flogging?

O.G.

 

I'm not mocking, nit-picking on you nor "your" numbers. Around these parts, there's no more "so what" about the last series that was truly coachbuilt than there is about how many bonafide 250 GTOs there are.

For example, qv500.com states there's 82 of the even-numbered "212 Inter" cars, and describes them well, while only getting into some of the actual who's-who coachbuilt numbers, which, at final tally, leaves one with even less than the 77 I came across in listings for Inter series on barchetta.cc, which isn't always up to speed, either.

qv500's summary of the 27 odd-numbered Exports includes some basics on each car, though - all on one page.
http://www.qv500.com/ferrari212p2.php

So, by their reckoning, there's 109. Maybe they're counting the 212 Europa Vignale Coupe 0239EU twice - after all, in '53 it was traded for 0292MM, a 212 Export Vignale Coupe, then restamped 0239EU.

If there's 108 total according to Cavallino or Ferrari Club, and 27 are Exports, that leaves 81 Inters.

If there's 75 Inters, that leaves 33 Exports.

Who knows, they could all be "wrong." There certainly is nothing wrong with learning something new and there's definitely nothing wrong with admiring 0197EL each time this thread rises to the top.

So, you can see why it's a good thing to break it down, and, most importantly, never assume what is written is set in stone.

 

Marcel isn't harsh enough!! People who destory the originality of cars (beyond doing what is needed to make them useable) should be put in the wood chipper!

 

My dispute with the word "destroyed" is based in part on the fact that all the original bodywork was preserved, and could be restored to the car if desired.

IMO, your thought about the Enzo body is an entirely different matter. Were that done, there would be no connection whatsoever between body and chassis. However, several 212 chassis were originally fitted with Touring Barchetta bodies. To my mind, that makes a connection, albeit not an original (for this car) one.

I'm surprised none of you have commented about the example (147) that was rebodied as a Cal Spyder. That seems further off the mark than this one.

 

I think that guy was already fed into the chipper.

Happy Holidays!

 

Dr. Stu

Sometime it gets a bit complicated.
002C for example. Her original body was replaced by IMO a less than stellar Touring Barchetta body by Moto. In the 60ies Stan rebodied her back to her original form. When I bought her I changed her nose to the latter MM style nose she eventually wore. (The nose I replaced wasn't original). She seems to wear her new body and nose well.

When Bruce owned 0854 he wanted a spyder so he obtained 0858's original spyder tail and cut off her roof. He did save the original bits including her original coupe tail which still has her original race paint and numbers. I'm restoring 0854's original body which some may feel looks a bit tatty but it's beautiful to me. It happens I have a good use for 0858's spyder tail and after removing about 20 lbs of Bondo I think she'll look good on 0846 restoring her back to her proper spyder configuration something Nino asked me to do for the Targa 100th.

Dave

Your mention of an Enzo body gives me an idea...

As an aside if any of you need an Enzo body I have a new US spec. one for sale. Various other Enzo bits I no longer need as well...

Best
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Rapists and murderers should go to jail. Taking a crap on some silly car that only a few very silly people care about is up to the person who wants to take the crap.

If some guy wants to change things up, who cares? It's metal and wood, rubber and plastic. Get over it.

--Dan

 

My point is that based on what you had gotten, you made it is close to the way it left the factory as is possible. There are others that have taken pefectly useable cars (Especially 250 2+2s) that were a bit scruffy and turned them into something else. I would much rather a scruffy but original and useable 250 2+2 than yet another GTO replica...

 

Happy Holidays Dr. Stu!!

 

Not to stir the pot too much on Christmas day here, but if you take that approach for old race cars (or even new ones that were modified in period), which version/configuration do you restore? As recent as a couple of years back, F1 cars would qualify with different body elements from what they raced in. Since the car wasn't assembled until it got to the track, which one is correct?

Which brings up another question, for a properly prepared F1 concours car, should you have all of the boxes of spares that came with it too?

 

Happy Holidays 2 U and Spice.

Race Cars make Pandora's Box look like a virgen...

 

I would prefer to see old race cars in their 1st version. As to modern cars (especially F1), if the car is presented as "The Monaco winner", then it should be in that configuration....if presented as the X-year "presentation car", than it should be in that configuration, etc...

 

Same to you and the rest of the gang. I hope you gave Sal the weekend off.

Yes, race cars are a special breed.

 

Coming back to the original thread: 0197 EL today has a non-original engine and a RESTAMPED engine to match the chassis (done by a British "restorer")...........I can prove it with crystal clear photos. The car is owned by Sir Anthony P. Bamford.
Marcel Massini

 

Happy Holidays to you and yours Marcel!!!

 

Whats nice about restamping an engine to make it appear original to the car?

 

oh!

 

is this still the case on ownership/location for 0197 EL ?

thanks

 

thanks to Mr. Massini: Belongs to a private collector in California.


rik

 

Throwing a spanner in the works, here is my version.

108 No: 212 Inter's / Export's built, excluding the two 1951 212 Formula 1's and the 1969 212E Montagna.

212 Inter:- 79 No: built.


1) 1950 - 107ES - BERLINETTA - STABLIMENTI FARINA
2) 1951 - 0111ES - COUPE - VIGNALE
3) 1951 - 0125EL - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE
4) 1951 - 0131E - COUPE - VIGNALE
5) 1951 - 0135E - COUPE - VIGNALE
6) 1951 - 0139E - COUPE - GHIA (Prince Bernhard of The Netherlands)
7) 1951 - 0141ET - BERLINETTA - TOURING
8) 1951 - 0143E - BERLINETTA - TOURING
9) 1951 - 0145E - COUPE - GHIA
10) 1951 - 0147E - COUPE - VIGNALE
11) 1951 - 0149E - COUPE - GHIA
12) 1951 - 0153EL - COUPE - GHIA
13) 1951 - 0155EL - COUPE - GHIA
14) 1951 - 0157EL - COUPE - VIGNALE
15) 1951 - 0159EL - CABRIOLET - VIGNALE
16) 1951 - 0161 EL - COUPE - VIGNALE
17) 1951 - 0163 EL - COUPE - VIGNALE
18) 1951 - 0165EL - CABRIOLET - ABBOTT
19) 1951 - 0167EL - BERLINETTA - TOURING
20) 1951 - 0169EL - COUPE - GHIA
21) 1951 - 0171EL - COUPE - VIGNALE
22) 1951 - 0173EL - COUPE - VIGNALE
23) 1951 - 0175EL - COUPE - VIGNALE
24) 1951 - 0177EL - CABRIOLET - PININ FARINA
25) 1951 - 0179EL - BERLINETTA -VIGNALE
26) 1951 - 0185EL - COUPE - GHIA
27) 1951 - 0187EL - COUPE - VIGNALE
28) 1951 - 0189EL - COUPE - GHIA
29) 1952 - 0191EL - COUPE - GHIA (Converted to LHD)
30) 1952 - 0193EL - COUPE - GHIA
31) 1952 - 0197EL - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE
32) 1952 - 0199EL - COUPE - GHIA
33) 1952 - 0201EL - COUPE - GHIA
34) 1952 - 0203EL - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE
35) 1952 - 0205EL - COUPE - GHIA
36) 1952 - 0207EL - CABRIOLET - VIGNALE
37) 1952 - 0209EL - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE
38) 1952 - 0211EL - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE
39) 1952 - 0213EL - COUPE - GHIA (Frolian Gonzalez, Argentina)
40) 1952 - 0215EL - BERLINETTA - TOURING
41) 1952 - 0217EL - COUPE - VIGNALE
42) 1952 - 0219EL - COUPE - VIGNALE
44) 1952 - 0223EL - COUPE - VIGNALE
45) 1952 - 0225EL - COUPE - GHIA
46) 1952 - 0227EL - CABRIOLET - VIGNALE (LHD)
47) 1952 - 0229EL - COUPE - PININ FARINA
48) 1952 - 0231EL - COUPE - VIGNALE
49) 1952 - 0233EL - COUPE - GHIA
50) 1952 - 0235EU - CABRIOLET - PININ FARINA (LHD)
51) 1952 - 0237EU - COUPE - VIGNALE (LHD)
52) 1952 - 0239EU - COUPE - VIGNALE (LHD) (Re-numbered to 0292M / 212 Europa)
53) 1952 - 0241EU - BERLINETTA - TOURING
54) 1952 - 0243EU - COUPE - VIGNALE (LHD)
55) 1952 - 0245EL - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)
56) 1952 - 0247EL - COUPE - PININ FARINA
57) 1952 - 0249EL - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)
58) 1952 - 0251EU - COUPE - VIGNALE
59) 1952 - 0253EU - BARCHETTA - TOURING (LHD) (William Ford, Michigan, USA)
60) 1952 - 0255EU - CABRIOLET - VIGNALE
61) 1952 - 0257EU - COUPE - VIGNALE
62) 1952 - 0259EL - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)
63) 1952 - 0261EU - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)
64) 1952 - 0263EU - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)
65) 1952 - 0265EU - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)
66) 1953 - 0267EU - COUPE - VIGNALE (LHD)
67) 1953 - 0269EU - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD) (Prince Bernhard of the NL)
68) 1953 - 0271EU - COUPE - VIGNALE (LHD)
69) 1953 - 0273EU - SPIDER - VIGNALE (LHD)
70) 1953 - 0275EU - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)
71) 1953 - 0277EU - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)
72) 1953 - 0279EU - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)
73) 1953 - 0281EU - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)
74) 1953 - 0283EU - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)
75) 1953 - 0285EU - COUPE - VIGNALE (LHD)
76) 1953 - 0287EU - COUPE - VIGNALE (LHD)
77) 1953 - 0289EU - COUPE - VIGNALE (LHD)
78) 1953 - 0291EU - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)
79) 1953 - 0297EU - COUPE - PININ FARINA (LHD)

212 Export:- 29 No: built.

1) 1951 - 0068M - BARCHETTA - TOURING (Mille Miglia)
2) 1951 - 0070M - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE (Mille Miglia)
3) 1951 - 0074E - BERLINETTA - MOTTO
4) 1951 - 0076E - SPIDER - VIGNALE
5) 1951 - 0078E - SPIDER - TOURING
6) 1951 - 0080E - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE
7) 1951 - 0084E - BERLINETTA - TOURING
8) 1951 - 0086E - SPIDER - FONTANA
9) 1951 - 0088E - BERLINETTA - TOURING
10) 1951 - 0090E - SPIDER - VIGNALE
11) 1951 - 0092E - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE
12) 1951 - 0094E - SPIDER - MOTTO (Premier Eva Peron, Argentina)
13) 1951 - 0096E - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE
14) 1951 - 0098E - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE
15) 1951 - 0100E - SPIDER - TOURING
16) 1951 - 0102E - SPIDER - TOURING
17) 1952 - 0104ED - BARCHETTA - TOURING
18) 1951 - 0106E - CABRIOLET - VIGNALE
19) 1951 - 0108E - BERLINETTA - TOURING
20) 1951 - 0110E - CABRIOLET - VIGNALE
21) 1951 - 0112E - BERLINETTA - TOURING
22) 1951 - 0128E - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE
23) 1951 - 0134E - SPIDER - TOURING
24) 1951 - 0136E - SPIDER - TOURING
25) 1951 - 0137EL - COUPE - GHIA - AIGLE Originally a 212 Inter at the Factory.
26) 1951 - 0146E - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE
27) 1952 - 0158ED - SPIDER - TOURING
28) 1952 - 0190ED - BERLINETTA - VIGNALE
29) 1952 - 0195EL - COUPE - GHIA – AIGLE (Ex 195 Inter 2+2 Ghia) Originally a 212 Inter at the Factory.

 

No thread is ever old or closed, as new information may come to hand.

I think i have cracked the number of 212 Models built and i hope you agree Christian.

 

NEP I meet the owner of 0195EL in Melbourne awhile back. He is restoring this very nice Ferrari. All the information he has qualify's it as a 195, not a 212.