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1962 Ferrari 250 GTE 2+2

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by mcimino, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. mcimino

    mcimino Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2007
    2,031
    Long Island, NY
    Interesting comments section for this BaT Listing:

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1962-ferrari-250-gte-4/

    Including this story from Desmo:

    It was 1967, in Denton, TX. I was in graduate school but also actively drag racing and building hotrods for rich kids.

    There was a car parked in front of graduate student housing, covered. The form was enticing, so one day I peeked under the cover.

    It was a Ferrari.

    The car did not move for several months so I tracked down the owner. Turns out it was a 1954 coupe, and the story was that this car had been given by Enzo Ferrari to Alberto Ascari as a reward for winning the F1 World Championship. How it ended up under a cover in Texas was a convoluted tale.

    And yes, it could be purchased, because the engine was seized and the starving graduate student owner couldn’t even begin to finance an engine rebuild.

    I got in touch with one of the enthusiasts I knew and a transaction to acquire the Ferrari was negotiated.

    In those days, I had a connection with a gravel quarry company to buy their worn out truck engines. Because their trucks were operating in an environment thick with rock dust, they wore out engines quickly. And the engines were Chevy 327s with forged cranks…truck stuff.

    Worn out complete Chevy 327? $50.

    I won’t belabor readers with too much of the rest of the story, you all know what happened. 1954 Ferrari coupe with Chevy 327 power.

    In my own defense, I did look into the cost of rebuilding the Ferrari V12, but it was just ridiculous. Dropping a rebuilt 327 in made perfect sense…at the time.

    As I enter my dottage and look back on my life (please don’t confront me with my failures, I’m aware of them) the hotrodding of what might have been Alberto Ascari’s Ferrari looms large.

    But wow…what a great car! 3 2’s on that rebuilt dump truck engine, Speedomotive hicomp pistons and a Duntov cam and heads ported and polished in a college apartment. It could drive small circles around the original Ferrari V12.

    OK, tie me to the hitchin’ post. The original car would be worth what? Easily over a million dollars today.

    Oh, yeah. The original V12 was sold to a guy who really did make a coffee table out of it.
     
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  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    17,898
    The car currently on offer at BaT has very little to do with the genuine 250 GTE #2573 GT.
    The real 250 GTE 2+2 chassis #2573 GT was born June 12, 1961, and sold new in Genova, Italy. Originally smoke grey with black interior.
    In the 2000s a 250 GT SWB California Spider REPLICA was built using GTE #2573 GT as donor car and in 2016 that REPLICA was in Miami, but later sold to a collection in Sweden.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  4. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 5, 2002
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    Don
    So, Marcel, the body is from 2573 GT? But not the frame?

    I guess I'm wondering how much of 2573GT is in the Cal Spyder, and how much is in the car on BaT? Or is the number 2573GT a red herring and the BaT car is from some other serial number?
     
  5. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 5, 2002
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  6. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    17,898
    The hood lock/mechanism of the car currently for sale on BaT shows the Pininfarina number 271. See photo on BaT. In most cases the last three digits of the (5-digit) PF body number are the ones stamped on the mechanism.
    Ferrari 250 GTE 2573 GT originally had Pininfarina number 39826.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  8. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,333
    BAT car seems to be 3919 renumbered as 2573. It has 271 all over it, photos also show numberous S.2 features.
     
  9. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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  10. mcimino

    mcimino Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2007
    2,031
    Long Island, NY
    I'm more interested if anyone has more info regarding the story about a 1954 coupe that had been given by Enzo Ferrari to Alberto Ascari as a reward for winning the F1 World Championship, and where that car might be today.
     
  11. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
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    Dec 19, 2003
    710
    Fountain Hills, Arizona
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    Mike
    Amazed at the interest shown in BAT for this car. I think it looks absolutely horrible, inside and out. And the usual comments made on BAT by people that know very little about the cars. Yeeeech.
     
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  13. Frank_Ford

    Frank_Ford Rookie

    Mar 28, 2014
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    Terra
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    Frank Ford
    Kare, other sources said that chassis 3919 had been converted by Mark Gerisch (M&L Coachworks) to a "62 GTO Spyder", red, to GTO specs. It had been commissioned by Frank Beard after he had seen Raab’s Spyder at his house?

    It would make sense that the BAT car could have the PF body off 3919 - but if the above is correct, then the question would still remain what different chassis number that BAT car is?
     
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  14. V12addict

    V12addict Karting

    Jan 2, 2004
    171
    A lot of garbage coming out of Bat with the Ferrari Badge. They resemble nothing to a Ferrari and people pay crazy money for them. example the Corvette that had Daytona cladding last week, i mean if you like Corvettes, buy a Corvette and stop pretending with Ferrari badge.
     
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  15. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
    3,333
    GTO spider is using serial number 3919, but was built using remains of another unknown 2nd series car it seems. "2573" has been around for ages, I'm sure if you remove the tag welded on chassis stamping, you'll find 3919.
     
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  16. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    17,898
    Just for the record: The yellow "250 GTO Spider" which Hilary Raab has or had used S/N 1443 GT (a 250 PF Coupé).

    Marcel Massini
     
  17. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,333
    Just for the record: transferring a GTE body from one chassis to another is not an easy job to do. In front of the car the chassis is underneath the body and in rear it is inside the trunk compartment. When installing a separated body to a chassis, all floors consisting of several sheet metal layers need to be reconstructed, so it is not a task somebody would take light-heartedly. This is why it is almost certain that "2573" consists of original body of 3919 still attached to its original chassis frame. If you look at separated GTE body shells, the floor has always been cut off completely and large pieces of trunk floor are also missing where the frame has been cut loose.
     
  18. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    So, it sounds like maybe the person with the GTO Spyder wanted the number 3919, but didn't want to actually use that chassis for some reason? So, since they owned both, simply switch numbers?

    This is really fascinating, actually-- more interesting than I thought at the beginning!
     
  19. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
    3,333
    In most parts of the world you need papers with a number in order to register a car. If you have a scrapped car with no papers, the easy way out is to use papers from another car.
     
  20. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    I'd be embarrassed to own this car.
     
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  21. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    17,898
    200 Grand for this? Absolutely insane. What a joke.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  22. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
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    Dec 19, 2003
    710
    Fountain Hills, Arizona
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    Mike
  23. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I am amazed at what that thing sold for, altered serial number and all.
     
  24. 635CSI

    635CSI Formula 3
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    Jun 26, 2013
    2,346
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    Graham
    Oh dear...
     
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  25. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
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    May 26, 2011
    3,321
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I will never understand why people do things like this to cars. It just makes the true survivors worth more!
     
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  26. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Mar 29, 2007
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    Timo
    While not my cup of tea either, I can sort of understand why someone would do something like this, especially if the original identity (VIN) of the car is already compromised or missing and perhaps beyond recovery.
    What I don’t understand is why people take complete and restorable or already good working cars and turn them into fake/pretentious models of something else.
    OTOH, if none of the above happened, the surviving original examples would be worth less.
    Catch-22

    Also, the ever increasing values of the more appealing/desirable models to which less desirable models are commonly turned into, many of latter will continue to face the possibility of becoming “I.D. donors” for fakes pretending to be former.
    Another Catch-22

    I will not be surprised when someday in the future, hopefully distant, after all or most 255 GTEs, 330 GT 2+2s, etc have been used for fakey Cal Spyders, GTOs, SWBs, etc many 330/365 GTCs, Daytonas, etc will also suffer the faith of other donors before them.
    In the case of Daytonas, for example, it might be that the first ones will be those already cut into Spyders back in the day.
    OTOH, all this will obviously rise the values of examples surviving un-molested.

    Over two decades ago I came across a quite rare and fairly valuable vintage (non-Ferrari) car in very rough condition. It was all together, complete , but “missing” its “I.D.”.
    After spending considerable time tracking down the whereabouts its “missing I.D.” (Title, VIN tags, etc.), I eventually found them associated with another car “pretending” to be something it wasn’t born as.
    Then, after offering the (identifiable) running gear components (i.e. engine & transmission) to the owner of the fake for a very modest compensation and receiving “not interested” reply, I eventuallycut up the one in my possession and sold off all salvageable components and parts,
    The engine and transmission eventually went into another, identical model, original car which had had its original running gear “robbed” decades earlier.
     
  27. 635CSI

    635CSI Formula 3
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    Jun 26, 2013
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    Graham
    I remember somebody postulating that the GTE would have looked better with perspex cover lights and a more streamlined nose.
    As we can see from the BAT car, it certainly does not.

    Car styling is best left to Pininfarina.
    Manzoni take note ;)
     
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  28. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    8,992
    Seriously crush that abomination.
     
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