Hi All In 1964 Pirelli developed the ability to make a 205 section tyre that was capable of withstanding the power of a Maserati. Up untill then the road cars had predominently been fitting the 185 section tyres, predominently Pirelli Cinturato CA67, then in 1964 they moved onto 205 and the road cars on 15" wheels fitted these https://www.borrani.com/tyres/205x15/205vr15-pirelli-cinturato-cn72.html Pirelli have just made a fresh batch, This is the great news as this is the first time we have had these back into stock. Productioin of everything has been extrememly difficult since Covid, made dramatically worse by that idiot in Russias performance. However they are back on the shelf now. the international distributors are on here https://www.cinturato.net/ there is some fitment data on here https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/maserati.html but basically they were OE on 5000GT, 4200 QuattroPorte, Mistral, Mexico, Ghibli and Sebring. Maserati did change a bit, so cars like the Mistral https://www.borrani.com/maserati-wheels/mistral.html and Sebring https://www.borrani.com/maserati-wheels/sebring-1.html earlier models came with 185VR16 Pirelli Cinturato CA67 which we also have on the shelf, but cars like the Ghibli https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/maserati/ghibli.html and Mexico https://www.borrani.com/maserati-wheels/mexico.html started off with 205VR15 CN72, then changed onto 70% profile tyres in the early 1970s. I wonder what you guys know about this: 70% profile tyres were invented in 1968. Pirelli were in there with the CN36 https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirelli-collezione/cinturato-cn36.html and Porsche, Dunlop with the SP Sport Aquajet https://www.borrani.com/dunlop-tyres/sp-sport-aquajet.html with the Jaguar XJ6 (however interestingly they didn't fit them to the E-type untill 1973 and Michelin were close on the tail with the XWX which at the time was stillcalled the X then the XVR Michelin XVR (longstonetyres.co.uk) However i dont think Maserati fitted them untill. the early 1970s with the Pirelli CN12 https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirelli-collezione/cinturato-cn12.html I have contradicting imformation about the Pirelli CN12, going back as early as 1971, but i also have seen clues that could lead you to beleive it might have been 1970, but they are inconclusive. I also think that when Maserati whent to 70 profile tyres it was with the CN12, however i couldnt state that as a concrete fact. how early do any of you guys have evidence of Maserati fitting 70 profile tyres? and what were they? i would love to have some pictorial evidence either way.
Thank you Dougal for these infos. I am however confused by specific info relating to fitting tubes inside the tyres for Ghiblis: https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/maserati/ghibli.html See in particular your statement: "Our period Innertube Guides suggest that most models fitted tube-type tyres and innertubes. The 1979 Dunlop guide suggests that some later Ghibli models were released tubeless. See our dedicated Innertube Page for more information." The use of tubes depends not only on the model of tyre but also on the model of wheel (porosity and tightness, design of the rim's bead with or without an internal hump). From the beginning until the end, and for most cars (except a few of them equipped with Borrani bimetal and Borrani spokes wheels), Ghiblis were delivered with 15" magnesium Campagnolo wheels. At the beginning of the Ghiblis production, such wheels were center-locked and tyres were 205 R15 (so with tubes), rapidly shifting to 215/70 R15 until the end of the production of Ghiblis, with design adapted for 4x130 studs fitment. And as you can see, 4x130 Campagnolo wheels have humps inside the rims and per the stickker inside the rim it is expressly recommended to avoid fitting tubes: Image Unavailable, Please Login Would you mean that the first 15" center locked Campagnolo wheels would accept/require 205 R80 tube tyres? And could you confirm that 215/70 R15 CN12 or XWX tyres fitted on the later 4x130 Campagnolo magnesium wheels require DO NOT require tubes?
Hi from my books that i have looked at it seems that the Ghibli moved onto 215/70VR15 tyres in 1972? and i think it was the Pirelli CN12? https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/maserati/ghibli.html If you know different please could you send me proof. It isn't because i don't beleive you, that i want some form of pictorial proof. It is because i would like to back up my statements on my web site, so that it looks likle i actually know what i am talking about not guessing. so for instance my current claim that 1972 is the year of change is because i will have seen that in some fitment guide or insurance book, then on top of that it lists 1972, well does it mean the end of 1972 or the begining, and also they will probably be English, so that could be a car for sale in the UK in January 1972 than was actually made in December 1970, so i do my best be any accuracy backed up with data is great. Back to inner tubes. All the tyres in question (205VR15 CN72, 215/70VR15 CN12 and 215/70VR15 XWX. you wouldn't consider anything else) are tubeless tyres, and there fore as long as they are on a tubeless wheel can be fitted with out innertubes. Always fit innertubes in wire wheels. those wheels in your picture are tubeless wheels, becuase they have the safety hump. (However if you were fitting any tyre 205VR15 or 215/70VR15 you could fit innertubes if you wanted to. It is not unsafe as long as it is 70% profile or taller) If the centre lock Campagnola has that safety hump then it can be run tubeless with the 205VR15 CN72. However if it doesnt have the safety hump i would recomend innertubes.
Just for completeness, these are size 52 centre lock splined Campagnolo Ghibli wheels. As you can see, they do have the ‘safety hump’ Image Unavailable, Please Login Regards to all. Mark
Thank you Mark. That is great. it displays it nicely. I would definitely fit an inner tube in that wheel. I would not run that wheel without a tube. A Ghibli originally fitted 205 R15 Cinturato. Pirelli's current production of these tyres has been sealed so it can be used without an innertube. However because it is an 80% profile tyre it can always run an inner tube. A 205R15 tyre could also be called a 205/80R15 using the later description, However before 1968, there was no option of a lower profile tyre, because they hadn't been invented yet, so it was simply called a 205R15. 205/80 R15 Classic Tyre selection & Innertubes (longstonetyres.co.uk) Our search pages on our web site also show low profile options for tyres, and radial alternatives for crossply etc. So a 215/75R15 is sort of the closest alternative to a 205R15 (or 205/80) because 75% of 215mm is very similar to 80% of 205mm. However there aren't any proper sporting tyres in that size. It was something that never really took off with European tyre manufcturers who make the best handling sports car tyres. So the Ghibli went for 215/70VR15. The XWX, CN12 and P5 produced today, are all made as tubeless tyres, but again because they are 70% profile you can still fit an innertube if your wheels, for instance these 52mm centre lock Campagnola wheels need innertubes. Now arguably you could say a 235/65R15 was an even lower profile option, but if there was a tyre of this size then you couldn't fit it on these wheels because you should not fit an innertube in a 65% profile tyre.
Dougal, Thank you for the explanations, it's clear. Let me summarise and ask again a clear question. Per you, it's better to put a tube inside a 205 R15 fitted to a Campagnolo rim, even though with humps, because of the high profile. That would be the case of the early Ghibli in period. Now, about a 215/70 R15 on the same rim (except in 4x130), as for Ghiblis, Indys , Khamsins and Boras. I understand from you that tubeless is "acceptable", because of lower profile and humps. It seems to me "better", because it is lighter, simpler, and designed for. Could you please confirm?
Hi I don't think that is quite right. I would say if you have a wheel that has the safety humps and is definately a tubeless wheel then running without tubes is best. regardless of weather it is a 80% profile tyre. tubless is very marginally better. However it must be a tubeless tyre on a tubless wheel. the 205VR15 Pirelli Cinturato CN72 currently produced is a tubeless tyre https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/205-r-15-pirelli-cinturato-cn72.html as are the 215/70VR15 CN12 and XWX, and P5 for that matter. If you are fitting them on earlier wheels that dont have the safety hump fit innertubes. fit innertubes in all wire wheels.
This tyre is actually in stock now https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirelli-collezione/cinturato-cn12/215-70wr15-pirelli-cinturato-cn12.html
