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1967 Le Mans P4s

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Gramps, Mar 20, 2004.

  1. Gramps

    Gramps Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
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    Gary McNutt
    On each of the P4s at LeMans in 1967 there was checker flag sticker just behind the door scoop. It also appeared on the Matra's and several other cars. Can anyone identify the logo please? Advertisements were not allowed on the entries until 1968, except, it seems, for the Marchal cat and flag which would slip in.
     
  2. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Gary.
    You wouldn't by any chance happen to be researching this on behalf of Mark Collins, would you ? Mark has just completed building a Ferrari P4 replica, and is trying to find out more about this decal, so he can put an accurate copy on his car. He's been posting to the 'Poor Mans P4 Replica Project' thread,

    See: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7514&page=10&pp=20

    I've tried doing some similar research for him, without much success, I'm sorry to say. Something I have discovered though, is that the reason these decals were placed in a rather haphazard fashion on the P4's, is that these decals appear to have been slapped on just before the start of the race. Prior to that, all the factory P4's appeared on the startline carrying 'Carello' and 'Lighting by Sylvania' decals in the same positons. In fact, in some race photos, you can see where the road dust stuck to the sticky residue left behind by the old stickers .....
     
  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    It isn't some way for the Le Mans officials to confirm the cars they scrutineered actually raced ... or something else like that? Hence the removal after the race.

    On a lot of long distance races the stick things on to the cars to determine if they have had their required fuel stops, etc.

    Pete
     
  4. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    No, it wasn't that, Pete. At Le Mans in '67 the scutineers insisted on those coloured discs (as in the yellow ones on the P4's doors) to assist the fire marshals in itentifying different types of bodywork material.
    This is definately some sort of trade logo - and found only on certain cars. See following bit of research from a Belgian friend:

    "Am spreading the problem - as in : I asked Steve DeVaux proof for his leaping panther or jaguar or whatever it is. And if he has any clue on what it represents.
    Difficult to find a common factor between a Mustang Shelby from Belgium, Alpines from France, Ferraris from Italy and Filipinetti Fords - except that it must be somehow European related ... did not find it on the American Fords, or Chaparral,"

    Oh and by the way, the NART 412P (race #25) wasn't carrying it either .....
     
  5. Gramps

    Gramps Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
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    Gary McNutt
    Ah, we have come full circle. Steve DeVaux and I are working on behalf of the "Belgium friend" who orginally raised the question to us. We don't believe it is a scrutineering sticker because then the Fords would have had them also.

    It is interesting to note that just before the race someone stuck the centers of the Autolite decals on the Fords, just the circle portions.

    Between practice and the race the decals on the P4s changed.

    Gary
     
  6. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 20, 2003
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    Isn't that the logo for Marchal Fog Lights - like their covers?
     
  7. P4Racer

    P4Racer Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
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    max wakefield
    #7 P4Racer, Mar 30, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I will find out who the sticker is meant to represent. Its likely to be a supplier, the cat being Sev Marchal, so I am guessing but the dog might be oil, like Agip, or it may be spark plugs.

    I went through this excersise with my car and ended up putting a bat in the middle, as it happens to be my family crest, I pinched that bat from Bacardi.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. P4Racer

    P4Racer Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
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    max wakefield

    Is that sticker above from a model of a P4. Because I think its meant to be a deers head. ???
     
  9. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    Max.
    Yes, I think that one is possibly from the Fujimi 1:24 P4. Since Mark (Collins) first asked me about this decal a couple of weeks ago, I've been examining various model manufacturers interpretations of it - from 1:43 to 1:10, and all of them show it as a complete animal - not just the head. Some, as in the Fujimi one above, show it with a vertical line above and below the animal.
    But then I took another look at a very much 'blown-up' photo of this decal, on the front wing of one of the Alpines in the pits at Le Mans in '67, sent me by Wim de Pooter - and you know what I think ? You may just have hit the nail on the 'head' - It might just be a Stag or a Deer, (leaping to the left).
    I'd post the photo, except that obviously, I'd have to reduce it (from the current 1.25MB) to a point where any clarity would be lost.
    Gary - has Wim sent it to you ? If not, drop me an email (P4Skett@aol.com) and I'll gladly forward it.
     
  10. Gramps

    Gramps Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
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    Gary McNutt
    Thanks Max and Paul,

    No I have not seen it yet but I am sure DePooter will send it along. Now where would the stag's head lead us?

    Gary
     
  11. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
    1
    Hi you guys!
    This is very interresting.
    I have done a crop...to see it more clearly...(I hope).
    My theory was that it was Enzos dog...(in the middle of the checkered flag)..
    but...obviously not so.. as the Checkered is found on other makes.
    Well...this is my contribution to you.
    Best: Staffan.
     
  12. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    Thanks for posting that, Staffan. Your cropping is a lot better than my effort would have been, and you got the resolution about as good as it could be.

    Gary. This is taken from that 1.25MB scan (of a magazine page) that Wim de Pooter had sent me previously ....
     
  13. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
    1
    Anybody...?
     
  14. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Tom Wiggers
    It could be the deere from Ferodo.
     
  15. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
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    Try to make it bigger.
     
  16. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
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    Look at Mauro...there´s a man with commitment.
    Amazing.
    Staffan.
     
  17. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    Well done Tom. Between us we have sussed it out ! In one of my earlier posts in this thread, I wrote:
    And then you said ' the deer(e) from Ferodo' .... So off I went 'Dogpile' image searching, on 'Ferodo' - but came up with absolutely nothing. Finally, I tried the 'old standby' - eBay, and came up with not one .... but two vintage Ferodo key-rings bearing their stag logo ! See photos below. The vertical line appears to be an oversized arrow ....
    Now all we need to do is transpose this stag logo onto a chequered flag and circle background, and we have the correct '67 Le Mans decal. Any good graphic artists reading this thread ?
     
  18. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Jim Pernikoff
    Well, to me the logo on the photo of the blue car looks much more like the Ferodo stag than the "dog" on the original illustration. I'd bet that that's what it was.
     
  19. Gramps

    Gramps Karting

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    Gary McNutt
    Wow, I am impressed. I think you are right, it must be the Ferodo Stag.

    Great work gentlemen. Thanks for keeping after it Staffan, Paul, Tom, et al.

    Gary
     
  20. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    Gary .... at the beginning of this thread, you wrote:

    So it would seem that S.E.V. Marchal weren't the only ones getting away with it. Obviously, the scrutineers at Le Mans in '67 were 'turning a blind eye' to any trade decal without the manufacturer's name. Hence the Carello and 'Lighting by Silvania' decals were hastily ripped off the P4's on the start-line and replaced by these unusual Ferodo decals - without the normal Ferodo script. In fact, if you look at the SEV-Marchal 'Cat and Flag' decals - you will notice that they are minus the usual wording underneath. Closer inspection of the photo of the Alpine's front wing (in the photo posted by Staffan) also reveals a subtle Shell decal - without the word 'SHELL' ....
     
  21. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    Again this old sticker came up on eBay in the last couple of weeks
     
  22. Gramps

    Gramps Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
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    Gary McNutt
    After looking at 521 images on Google I came up with these. At least we know that Ferodo used the checkered flag in their packaging.
     
  23. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    So what did you find Gary ? I'm itching to see. I went through a similar number of image searches using www.Dogpile.com (IMHO a superior search engine), and found nothing like it.
    Hasn't everybody involved in motorsport used it at some time? <g>
    In the meantime, I took the liberty of sending an email to Ferodo UK Ltd. ...
     
  24. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Tom Wiggers
  25. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Yep that is the one!
     

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