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For Sale 1970 Boss 302 for sale. Once owned by Rob Lay

Discussion in 'Other Cars' started by DIGMAN52, Sep 15, 2020.

  1. DIGMAN52

    DIGMAN52 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 30, 2004
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    Philip C
    So I am getting serious about making space for a C8 Vette coming in November, and the Boss 302 has to go.

    I bought if from Rob 1 1/2 years ago, and spent another $ 6,600 getting her like I wanted.

    Rob bought the car from Cat's Exotics, a sponsor, and it came with an appraisal done in 2006 showing it to be a correct, all numbers matching Boss. During some investigating last month, we took off the starter to get at the block numbers, and discovered it is a 1972 correct replacement block. I have found out during my ownership, that very few Boss's have the original motor, as most were drag raced in their early days.

    Rob had Mid Cities Mustang rebuild the motor, tranny, brakes and install a new clutch. Someone had added 2 real gauges in between the dash humps, for water temp and oil pressure. They look great. He also had them put on a new heater core, as the old one was dripping.

    When I got the car, it soon went to Dallas Mustang, where I had them replace the straight across Ford steering wheel, and put in a 3 spoke mustang sport style wheel. We also put on new shocks ( 4 years later) , a Flaming River quick ration steering box to fix any slack in the steering wheel, and adjust the valves, etc.
    I also put on some new / old style Kelsey Tire Goodyear F60-15 White Letter tires on her. Just looks right!

    It still wasn't pulling to 6,000 rpm like it should, so Grubbs Automotive, that work on all Aaron Shelby's cars, found a kinked fuel line the other 2 shops never saw, as well as fixing the points/ curve. It now pulls hard from when it comes on the cam about 4,000 rpm, up to 6,000+ with no issues. Sounds great too.

    All in all, the car has had $22,159 spent on her since 7-24-15 when Rob had the initial work done.

    I bought the car from Rob for $65k and was about to try to get $75k for her, when we discovered the block issue. I now want $65k for the car. It won it's first car show again 21 other mustangs and cougars last year.
    Check it out. If you play your card right, we can probably get Rob to sign the glove box door.
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  3. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Six Time F1 World Champ
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    a Ford with Fchat provenance....wonders never cease.

    it's a great car!
     
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  4. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    Hmmm so scratching head...

    In the Ford world a Marti Report is often a valuable and respected aspect of a cars documentation. The fact that they were wrong or Cats Exotics took artistic liberty with their research seems to be a big problem for Matri's reputation and integrity IMO

    Secondly its places like Cats Exotics (no idea if they still are in business) who tout these cars as all original but.... its, been resprayed, re decaled, has non OEM gauges and a non matching #'s and incorrect dated coded block but according to Cats Exotics "it was in original numbers matching condition". Sorry dealers (peddlers) like that seriously piss me off and are a black cloud on the hobby.

    Third its curious if the engine was recently taken out to rebuild no one took a few minutes to double check the block number?

    Kudos to you as the current owner to investigate, divulge and be upfront about the information you found. As an owner and fan of this era of cars, yes things happened back then. Things broke, got fixed with no respect to the future values that no one could ever predict for cars that were for a long time unwanted gas guzzling dinosaurs. A Boss 302 is a sweet ride and hope the new owner enjoys it. GLWS!
     
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  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    The Boss 302 is probably the most desirable Mustang ever to me, and I was never a Ford person.
     
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  7. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Did Rob sign the inside of the glove compartment door, or elsewhere. This adds value.
     
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  8. DIGMAN52

    DIGMAN52 F1 Rookie
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    Marti just documents when the car was built, where, and what options the car came with. They do not certify anyone's cars as being original.

    My issue would be with the people that did the appraisal in 2007. I would imagine the engine blew in 1972, or else someone would have searched out an old 1970 block and possibly re-stamped it. Rob and I trusted what they said, as the car looks so perfect, we took it at face value.

    Hey, buyer beware. I could have gotten off my butt to check out all the various numbers, and probably passed on the car. Then I would have missed the last 18 months of fun with her. Winning a car show class with 22 in it was very exciting, and with all the Ford / Cougar guys there, no one was nit-picking the Boss that day. Cruising around town listening to that solid lifter motor is pretty theraputic.

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  9. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    First I've heard of the block issue, I'm really amazed as you mentioned because of #1 Martini Report/Appraisal #2 Cat's Exotics represented as all numbers matching (not sure he could know better and trusted Appraisal?) #3 I had independent Mustang shop do PPI close to Cat's (they only found not original paint like Cat's claimed, but didn't question the numbers matching) #4 As mentioned I had over $20k of work done including an engine rebuild by a specialty Mustang shop (they even said number matching, just one head replaced).

    This is a great car though, market has been flat on these from what I paid and then Phil, but I put well over $20k into it and then Phil over $6k. That's the risk with these cars though, you trust the dealer, try to do your due diligence, and then still end up spending $25k where it should have been in the first place. At least between me and Phil you know exactly what it is now.
     
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  11. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    Back in the day it was not uncommon to have warranty replacement CE (counter exchange) blocks end up in these types of car a year or two after being bought new. As mentioned these cars in period were raced, rodded, modded and used as they were designed and that was going fast in a straight line :)

    I own my fathers (original owner) 1970 LS6 chevelle and it has a CE warranty block in from 1971 due to an oil pump issue or something. In general when this happens it easy to discern the series of events based on the block number and date code. It certainly helps if the warranty paperwork can be found but overall IMO doesn't take much away from a great fun car.

    My comments are more towards the people/companies/appraisers/dealers selling cars from this period with wrong or misleading info.

    A note about numbers, a block (or pick your part) could have a same part number cast into it that was used for any number of years during a model run. Its that cast in part number plus the date code on the engine that would be the second step to determine if it was for a particular year.

    This a a great looking car that probably had the block replaced under warranty (like many others of the day), hope someone buys it and enjoys it. It looks great under the hood, with the inspection markings, stickers and stuff. Those are really cool and important details someone took time to get right. Again, Nice Car!
     
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  12. jimpo1

    jimpo1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Somebody tell Mia her car is available! :D
     
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  13. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Jennie doesn't have garage room now, I do though. :)
     
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  14. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
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    Mar 14, 2005
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    Boss 302 short blocks were replaced early on by the dealers because of the flawed OEM pistons that would crack. The service blocks had redesigned pistons.
     
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  15. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    Is being owned by @rob lay some type of selling point? Or possibly a red flag....hmmmm

    :D

    Beautiful car...
     
  16. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    maybe a red flag except the $20k+ I put into it! :D
     
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  17. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    That feature alone is worth more than a full motor refurbishment and paint. Thats a minimum 50k$ :)
     
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  18. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran

    Jan 11, 2012
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    Claude Laforest
    #17 godabitibi, Sep 24, 2020 at 12:47 AM
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020 at 1:02 AM
    First of all, never take an appraisal done by any company that are NOT EXPERT on a specific car as a real market value. These are just numbers for insurance companies. Most don't really know what to check to be CORRECT.
    This car look really nice from a distance and from exterior but it ends there.
    Under the hood there is A LOT of incorect or missing items just looking at pictures. Imagine in real ?
    Same with underside. Steel scattershield on a matching number car ????? Now imagine what else on closer inspection.
    Interior, well I won't comment.
    Don't want to to be rude on that car but VERY FAR to be a correct Boss 302.
    It's a nice driver.
    Mustangs were never built in Canada. Metuchen plant is in New Jersey. Boss were built in Metuchen and Dearborn. Depending on where it was built there are differences in some details if you want to go concours.
    Who ever wrote this description sheet of the car didn't know the Boss and Mustangs correctly.
     
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  19. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran

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    Oh! Your asking price is right in the target for the car's condition according to Hagerty in condition between #2 and #3
     
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  20. DIGMAN52

    DIGMAN52 F1 Rookie
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    Thanks for your thoughts. My purchase was an impulse one, and it's on me not to have had it checked out. The good news is, that we are talking $60- 65 k , and not $200-300k Ferrari purchase.

    To me, the disappointing part is how it was portrayed by Cat's Exotics. Rob and I both put too much stock in a Sponsor / dealer giving an honest description of the car, as well as the "appraisal" being bogus as well.

    The big picture is, Rob had fun with the car for 6 years, and I have had a great 1 1/2 years with a good driving 50 year old classic musclecar. If the cost of those good times seems high, so be it.
     
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  21. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    So is this an actual Boss? The Canadian build aspect is confusing (obviously knowing Metuchen is in NJ)
     
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    there is nothing about it that is Canadian built, dumb dealer put that on an original sales sheet. I never said it was, Phil never said it was, no one else said it was.
     
  23. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    <thumbs up>
     
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  24. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    #23 arizonaitalian, Sep 27, 2020 at 11:18 AM
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020 at 11:31 AM
    So the Cats Exotics ad was incorrect when it said made in Canada and numbers matching?

    I don't see where Marti report said anything about the current condition of the car? (all it does is tell you some facts about the car when it was built, no?)

    I also don't read the Appraisal as "confirming" it was in fact numbers matching. They simply performed a market appraisal based on what the person that requested the appraisal told them. In fact they included the language from the seller/requestor and titled it "description". I would bet a lot their appraisal was not an "inspection/verification" of those facts, but instead simply accepted that description and then did some market research to provide an appraisal.

    EDIT: If, otoh, this description language is from the appraiser, then...well, that appraisal would have gone in the round file if I was a buyer. Any appraiser that concludes with a "description" that reads like a sales ad is absurdly worthless imho. Especially if it ends with "Great Investment!" (with an exclamation point no less...). I read that appraisal as they inspected and confirm down to the list, but not to include the "description". But its certainly dodgy the way they wrote it.
     
  25. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    certainly wrong about made in Canada. certainly iffy about the "original". about the block, good chance it was replaced by a dealer under warranty/recall.
     
  26. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    See my post above...where does the Marti report say anything about the current state of the car? Isn't it merely historical record of the car's built details and related stats?

    (maybe the offer a verification/inspection service, but I have no idea. That would - of course - require someone to do the labor to actually check the numbers etc. To be clear, I don't see anywhere on the Marti report where it says they confirm the car is numbers matching or anything remotely close to such a statement)
     

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