1972 365GTC4 brake line routing

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Barry Wolk, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. Barry Wolk

    Barry Wolk Rookie

    Nov 30, 2017
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    Barry Wolk
    I am a hobbyist mechanic that built a 1932 Ruxton that went to Pebble Beach. I've also built a 1939 Steyr55 Baby and a 1942 Lincoln Zephyr from piles of parts.

    I have a RR mechanic friend that works on my friend's cars in my facility. We have our friend Marty's 365GTC4 in my shop for what started off as just an investigation into an exhaust rattle. It's turned into a complete brake job including replacing and re-routing brake lines as they have been installed too close to the exhaust manifold and sections have been replaced with plumbing compression fittings.

    There are two holes on the front crossmember that appear to be parallel, but the one in front is slightly higher. At some point someone ran the tubes within 1 inch of the exhaust pipe.

    I have surmised that the brake lines pass through the hole on the left, go vertical and then turn horizontal behind the heat shield and up to the master cylinder. If that's not it, what is the proper routing?

    That's a rod stuck through the holes. Did the brake lines run through there?

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  2. Dbone

    Dbone Karting

    May 28, 2005
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    Barry

    Also post this on the 365gtc4 site- a lot of the members work on their C4s.
    Forum.365gtc4.com
    Dave
     
  3. Barry Wolk

    Barry Wolk Rookie

    Nov 30, 2017
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    Thanks Dave, but I ran into a roadblock. A qualifying question is what brand of mag wheels came on the 365GTC4 and I don't know. It has Borelli wires on it now.

    L'il help?
     
  4. Barry Wolk

    Barry Wolk Rookie

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  5. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Although I admit I'm having slight difficulties comprehending what exactly you're asking for, but I'll try to offer some answers.

    Brake line routing shown in your photos could be OE. I don't have exact answer regarding your 365 GTC/4, but some other Ferrari models manufactured at the same time featured similar routings. For example, depending on each cars production time-line, 365 GTB/4 models built betwen '69 and '73 appear to have featured (at least) three different ways of routing brake line tubings, including one similar to your 365 GTC/4.

    I believe OEM (magnesium) wheels that came with your car are/were called "Cromodora" and were 7.5" x 15" in size.
    "Borrani" wire wheels were often sold as a dealer option.
     
  6. Barry Wolk

    Barry Wolk Rookie

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  8. Dbone

    Dbone Karting

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    Barry, as TTR says, Cromadora wheels were standard, with Borrani as a dealer option, US cars had the Federalized hex knock offs vs the eared.

    The bad news, original brake lines running from the master to the rear route along the body sills in the same channel with the fuel line- You don’t see them in looking under the car.

    It would appear that the car you are working on has already had a brake line issue and rerouted the tubes outside the body sills. They certainly aren’t running along the exhaust plumbing.
     
  9. Barry Wolk

    Barry Wolk Rookie

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  10. Dbone

    Dbone Karting

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    Barry,
    Not sure what they are use for. Mine do not have anything running through them.
     
  11. TTR

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    Is there one or two 22mm (or so) diameter thinwall round tubes running from front to rear (i.e. from engine bay-to-rear fender well) inside either, likely left side, rocker panel enclosure ?
    If none or only one, those holes on your frame are likely for OEM routing of brake lines (+ maybe fuel return line) and more likely so if the car is an early (Euro?) production, although the header end flanges & exhaust hanger brackets suggest it being U.S. delivery example.
    If two, those holes could've been just for the fuel return line tubing or ... ?
    Would you mind sharing first two (or three) digits of the VIN, 14xxx ?
     
  12. Barry Wolk

    Barry Wolk Rookie

    Nov 30, 2017
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    I believe we have resolved they mystery. It appears that someone replaced a metal fuel line with a rubber line which took up so much space in the frame rail that there was no room for the brake lines. They were inappropriately routed in proximity to the exhaust system. We are in the process of replacing all 5 metal lines. We believe the original problem stemmed from the use of pointed trim screws that penetrated the sill rail too far.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  13. TTR

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    #12 TTR, Dec 7, 2017 at 5:42 PM
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 5:51 PM
    I don't know C/4 that well, but other models like B/4 built around same time used continuous length 3/8" (+/- 10mm) ID rubber hose for fuel delivery from the fuel pumps (in the back) to carbs (in engine bay) and this hose was routed through the (left) rocker panel enclosure inside one of the 22mm OD tubes I referred to earlier.
    If a second 22mm OD tube is present inside the rocker enclosure, it is/was meant for 2 brake lines, fuel return line & on US delivery built cars, fuel vapor line (smog equipment).

    If no second 22mm tube is/was present (like in early production cars), 2 brake lines, fuel return line and possibly, if applicable, fuel vapor line were all routed along the main frame rails, similar to your pictures.

    I've attached a photo of similar set-up used in low 14xxx VIN Euro B/4 (built in early '71), although it shows fuel return line routed on the inside the X-member tubes and brake lines on the outside of main frame tubes, similar to yours. No vapor line. 3/8" fuel delivery hose is/was routed as mentioned earlier (sorry for the poor resolution photo, but it was the first one I found quickly from my files).

    I don't think metal line was used for fuel delivery from back-to-front on these, but I could be wrong, perhaps some one with more intimate experience of C/4s can confirm or deny.

    But sounds like you got it all under control, so I can quit bothering with this.

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  15. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Rookie
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    Dec 23, 2007
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    FYI the 365 GT4 2+2, which I believe has many similarities to the GTC4 uses a rubber fuel supply line and a steel return line. I don't understand why Ferrari didn't use steel for both the supply and return. BTW replacing the rubber fuel supply line is not an easy job.
     

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