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1976 Vetroresina

Discussion in '308/328' started by Yoric, May 4, 2009.

  1. Yoric

    Yoric Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2005
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    Yoric
    Gents,
    In my serious and continued quest for an early carb GTB, I ran across a 1976 GTB in Indiana. It's at Ooley and Blackburn (see website), red/tan, 60+k miles, asking $50K. Anyone one familiar with this 308? Dealership feedback? Thoughts on mileage, price? I noticed AIR pump and related spaghetti are missing.
    As you can see, I'm still looking. The two 77 B's here in Colorado were pretty much project cars--rust, fire, no records, missing tools, wheels, etc. Now that school's out, I'm willing to travel and extend my range.
     
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  3. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    IF you want one you'd better get on it!

    I have three sets of air pump equipment, if you are so inclined....

    The tubing can get rusty and leak and if a pump siezes you trash a cam.....

    Fair Price, IMO.....
     
  4. Yoric

    Yoric Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2005
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    I'm not particularly enamoured of the plastic version of the 308. In fact, except for one close by that's not for sale, I would rather have a steel one. The difference in asking prices--somewhere around $10-20K--yields a lot of surplus $$ to invest in a steel car to bring it to tip top condition. At least for me, who is looking for a solid, reliable and safe GTB driver, the appeal of fiberglass car is just not there--unless of course, I can't find an alternative. It's been a couple of months since I've been looking, so I'm not at the jump at whatever pops up in our For Sale section--yet.
     
  5. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    +1. For my dollar, a '76 steel car is just as good as a '76 glass car. If I were in a collector state of mind things might be different, but otherwise no way. No performance difference from the maybe 15-20kg less they weigh. Hold out for a nice steel car and continue on the plan of action you have set out. Keep us in the loop!
     
  6. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    1976 steel cars are thin on the ground......I only have one, in my fleet....:rolleyes:
     
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  8. Yoric

    Yoric Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2005
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    The earlier, the better, I would think, and thus would be absolutely thrilled with a '76. In fact--and pardon my ignorance--I was not aware that there'd been any 76 steel cars imported, only fiberglass. So, right you are, the numbers must be pretty small. However, I'd sure be happy with a good stand-up '77 GTB right about now. 1978 and 1979 came with catalytic converters (scary thought with carburators!) and softer cams. 1980 and 1981 had, according to many on this list (including Rifledriver), severe oil consumption problems. The last desireable batch, for me at least (and no offense to any of the brothers on this list who own and love 1982-83 308s), of the 308GTB's would seem to be the 308QVs. But, as I've said before, I want to own a carburated car if at all possible, although I'm old enough to never say never. I know Carreaper has a great example of a QV GTB and we've been in touch.
     
  9. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I haven't looked at that fibreglass one you mention, but I'll trade you even, that one for my #20405.

    November 1976 production steel body, I'll challenge all of the chatters to find an earlier North American steel VIN, still on the road...!!!!

    It was sitting side by side with a glass car on the showroom, so I was told....
     
  10. Yoric

    Yoric Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2005
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    Bubba,
    How about a just plain (?), ordinary (?), normal (?), not so rare 77 steel B? Didn't someone mention that you have three?
     
  11. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    wow that is indeed a very early steel car. mine is 20623 stamped December of '76. I believe I read somewhere on this forum that the steel cars were made in batches of 20 at first. 20 US steel cars. 20 Euro glass cars a month later or so. 20 more US steel cars. can anyone confirm?
     
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  13. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    The Fibreglass cars for North America were indeed made in batches of 20....I have never heard the same comment applied to the steel bodied cars, so I do not know the details of transition in production.....if you look at the 308GTB Registry site its VERY hard to discern the factory logic, between all the markets, and those were the days when "money talked" on delivery...

    IIRC, #20405 is stamped November 76 on the door VIN plate......due to the American model year transition in the fall of each year it's always been titled as a "1977"....

    You would also think shipping via marine freight, in lieu of air, might have added a month or more befroe it even hit port here in the States.....
     
  14. Corsa308

    Corsa308 Formula Junior

    Apr 22, 2007
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    If the car looks good and the price is right for you, go for it.
    I have a glass car that I imported from the UK. I was very worried about rust especially with their salted roads etc.
    It has some light surface rust here and there that I fix when I find it, but with so much fibreglass there is much less to worry about.
    Corrosion wise it is great for an ex UK car that is 32 years old.
    Mine is 20465, 1976. Don't know what month.

    Steve
     
  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, here's the thing stated so well!

    Let's assume the '712' number of fibreglass cars represents the worldwide production of the model, for 1975 and 1976, and that would include all the prototypes, show cars, examples crashed for safety certification, etc.

    Given the transition to steel body panels, once tooling was achieved, one would assume the next year's production, the few "1976 steel cars" and then the entire year's run of 1977's would hardly amount to more than the 700 - 800 total, for the entire world.

    Even given the dominance of the US market to Ferrari at that time, there are NOT that many North American steel NON CAT cars, before our DOT clamped down on Ferrari and mandated compliance....you'll recall ALL American car manufacturers had to start using CATs as well as unleaded fuel in 1976...Mom had a Chevy Nova that year and I recall the 'funny smell' from the early designs....hydrogen sulfide.."rotten eggs".

    So that's what makes the 1977 "good cam" NON CAT cars special.......How special, $$$$$ wise?
    That's always been very hard to determine as they constantly are lumped in with the next few years CAT equipped carbed cars, and then followed by the "dime a dozen, made a million of them, EveryMan's Ferrari" description labeled by "experts" on the 308/328 series as a whole...

    I actually share the opinion that other than rarity bragging rights there's no added value to a 'glass 308GTB

    I really have my eye on a dusty 1976 512Boxer here, it turns out it's a Factory Prototype, to complete my collection....
     
  16. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Steve, you should check your plate, just in interest of comparison to my 20405.

    You'd think they'd be more or less in order but tales run rampant of VINs 'passing' each other on the lines...we are going to have to get some Old Timers in this discussion, to really know....


    Again the 308GTB Registry site is very interesting reading and it has the advantage, or disadvantage of only including current surviving examples, (of Internet savvy Owners!!) no one can really say how many were lost........
     
  17. Argento839

    Argento839 F1 Veteran
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    Do it!
     
  18. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    The frames and undercarriage and even the side door sill rails of a "'glass car" are untreated steel.....so it's good you found such a fine example...

    And as I alluded in the post above, in the early years of production our 308s were not at all thought of as "common"...the list price in 1976 was $27,000USD, and for $5K you could get a top of the line optioned Chevy Impala.

    I recall urging Dad to get the Trans Am Super Duty 455 Cu In. instead! LOL! It was around $5K too!
     
  19. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Well it's not that easy, my identity has been stolen and HE ate very well for a few months, living in my old apartment....I have given up on ever sorting it out with the Credit Bureaus......
     
  20. Argento839

    Argento839 F1 Veteran
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    That stinks I m sorry to hear that...
     
  21. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    I really can understand why the '76-'77 cars are lumped into the '78-'79 cars by the general population. At the time magazine articles quoted the '78-'79 cars as faster than the early cars. I have yet to find a magazine article (US anyway)that tests a '76-'77 car to be quicker than the later carb cars.

    From reviewing dyno figures posted by members on this forum, I have seen a trend with nice running and tuned '78-'79 cars to pulling around 180-182rwbhp while nice running tuned '76-'77 cars are pulling around 190-192rwbhp. Just a *tiny* bit more poke out of the early cars. Not enough to really notice a ton. There are bragging rights but I have no idea if it will go beyond that in the long run. Time will tell I suppose
     
  22. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    A carb car's performance could be rapidly undermined by a novice fiddling with it..

    Even the race car V12s were known to be delivered totally out of whack...hard to say why......

    There's no doubt the rarity and uniqueness of "the only Ferrari street car ever produced in fibreglass" is worth "something"..that's why the market treats them that way.

    I just always maintain a skinny girlfriend makes up the weight disadvantage, pretty quickly!
     
  23. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 MS250, May 5, 2009
    Last edited: May 5, 2009
    Yoric, you have the link for this car ? Sounds like a decent price if it has history with it.
     
  24. Yoric

    Yoric Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2005
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    Don't have a link but their website is <www.ooley-blackburn.com> and their phone is 317/575-8686. I have no connection or vested interest in this enterprise.
     
  25. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    I was just checking out an ebay '77 GTB red/blk item number 250418831891. 2 owner car. 51k miles. original. Could be a good driver. It is a very early '77 stock number putting it probably around January '77. It still has the giant thermo reactor muffler (changing that thing would be at the top of my list) and a couple non-factory things inside that I can see (gear nob and steering wheel). Might not hurt to call on it. Chances are good it would need a suspension and steering refresh and minor engine servicing depending on how the ppi checks out.
     
  26. Yoric

    Yoric Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2005
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    Call me lazy or undermotivated, but frankly, I cannot work up the enthusiasm to go after a 308 located in Canada. May be my loss, but it's probably too much of a hassle for me.
    I do thank you for pointing it out, don't know how I missed it. Three places I check daily are Fchat, the local Craig's list and eBay--in that order and with that ranking. Can't say that I have much trust in the last, especially if I can't inspect the vehcle in person.
     

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