1979 308GTB with Rebuildable/Salvage Title

The salvage title will always put a hurt on resale, pass on it and buy one with a clean title or accept the fact you may be stuck with this car for a long time and always know you'll take a hit at resale time. If you wanted a good track car or a street thrasher with no concern towards originality then have fun with it, sell the parts you dont need for the track and have a blast. I would only buy that car if I got it cheap cheap, in the low 20's then it wouldnt matter if I had to sell it down the road, I could part it out instead and use the engine as a coffee table or conversation piece and the rims to hold my garden hoses and air lines.

 

As cars age a rebuild title loses significance. As does mileage. In the end condition is all that really matters. Condition, condition, condition. If they live long enough, all Ferrari's get rebuilt sooner or later

 

I disagree, if a car has salvage history from being in a wreck that will have a negative effect on price vs one that has a clean history. Its nice to know that someone like yourself will pay top dollar for a bent ferrari though.

 

Well said.

 

I find myself in agreement with both Paul and Newman.

I do agree that a Salvage title is a negative that will stick with this car. If it was that minor of a hit I would have expected to see posted photo's of the damage to support the statement.

Miles on a car says it was maintained in my book. Most often the very low mileage cars have seen very little service maintaince over their life and if they are planned to be used will require some effort with the new owner. If the plan is to show rather than use the car then the cost associated with a low mileage car can be justified. Mileage? A simple plug that can be disconnected without even jacking the car up. Service records will tell the REAL story. For years I did oil changes to cars that showed 3 or 4 miles between changes. Condition and service history tells the real story, read between the lines.

So often folks get drawn into the cheap purchase price of a car requiring repairs as the owner did. I would bet his checkbook register shows he is in the car for what non-storied cars are selling for less the value placed on heart ache and the inability to use his car for the period of time required to fix it.

Dave

 

All things being equal, pass on a salvage title car. It is up to you to make sure it is not equal. Make sure the price refects adequately the salvage title in addition to the condition of the car. But this isn't a Chevy Citation - there will always be a buyer for a Ferrari, even with a salvage title, the price just has to be low enough. You will take a hit in resale value, so make sure to get that money up front in the purchase price. All this in addition to having a good PPI, making sure it was repaired properly, etc., etc. My experience in looking at 308's is that someone else's purchase point for a salvage title car is higher than mine, so there definately is a market for salvage Ferraris. People out there are buying them.
I am sure that there are salvage titled cars that have had better repairs than cars that didn't get the title marked. So it is buyer beware in any case. At least with a salvage title you _know_ to have frame measurement done as part of the PPI.

 

Hard to say.

I have a no stories 1977 GTB completely sorted, new interior, fully serviced with an air tight history trail from new. It will bring only $8500 more than what the owner thinks his is worth or it will stay in my ownership and get used as it was intended.

Not a perfect comparison as I believe the 77's are pulling a bit higher sales price than the later Carbed, Cat cars.

Dave

 

There are very few vintage Ferrari's in the world that havnt been damaged along the way. And virtually every single one of them would have salvage titles today if the same rules had been applied during thier existence. Many of those cars are worth so much, and have been for quite some time, that almost no amount of damage would earn one a branded title. To use several extreme examples, the Dietric Enzo that was destroyed on the PCH in California was reconstructed my Ferrari and the title remains clear. It has been suggested that that particular car (the Enzo) cannot be destroyed. The F-50, perhaps even the F-40 are in that range as well as many other vintage Ferrari V-12 cars and the like. But perhaps the greatest example would be a 250 GTO. You could crush it flat and burn it beyond recognition, and as long as you had an ID tag, a new chassis could be built and a new motor supplied by Ferrari for well under 50% of its value, and it would not be required to carry a branded title.

But skuff up the paint of a 308 a little bit, hell, you could run over a dog, and the car could recieve a branded title simply because the dollar amount needed to repair it exceeds 50% of the cars value. If the current values drop any further, under $20K, we are going to see many more of these cars being scrapped and salvaged instead of repaired, and much of it simply because of these stupid branded title laws. You cant even paint one of these cars today for less than half its value.

I feel that a wise and educated person should be able to determine the condition of a machine, or have the knowledge to ask someone familiar to inspect it for them, and be able to determine its value and condition without the nanny state making the process more difficult.

 

One thing to remember, that many States are very lenient with salvage titles. In Minnesota, any car over ten years old that has a salvage marked title can be "cleaned" and the title will never show a history of it.

So, just because someone has a good title doesn't mean there is not some kind of history. Get the inspection.

I personally have never had a problem with vehicles that have been damaged. As long as it has been disclosed, the vehicle was repaired correctly, and the price reflects this. But, I also do not expect that the guy is going to give the car away at salvage yard prices. I understand that to many Ferrari people, to own a car that has ever sustained damage is unacceptable. But to many others these savable cars are the perfect starting point for personalized projects or even track cars.

 

I didn't read the auction, but why was it salvaged?

If it was stolen and stripped, or had enough minor body damage to write it off, then I would inspect the car very carefully to see that everything was done right and is correct, and it is not a "frankencar".

If it was flooded, then I would want to see proof of the mechanicals attended to, and I would inspect the frame and body cavities very closely for rust.

If it was in an accident, then I would want to see the photos, as well as the records of the repair. Given that 308s have a tube frame chassis, they can literally be reconstructed by a skilled and equipped fabricator. A badly mangled chassis can be rebuilt to good-as-new standards. Then again, it can be pulled out on a frame straightener and covered up, too. I would inspect an accident history car very closely on a lift, looking for signs of things not straight, taking measurements, checking panel gaps, looking at fender contours and wheel-to-fender spacing, etc.


What do all of the above have in common? Answer: I would inspect any salvage car very closely and armed with knowledge. And I would think especially hard about buying it at any price, because it will be a difficult sell some day.

Hand built cars like an old Ferrari or Lotus are the only cars I would ever consider buying with salvage accident history, because many can be properly and correctly rebuilt, unlike most modern unibody cars.

 

One more thing for Tony D. -- $32k is nuts for any salvage 308. You can buy a very nice proper maintained original for that!

 

Artvonne has a point - it is too easy for an insurance company to 'total-out' a 308, even for minor damage. More information is needed to make a determination whether the car is worth pursuing or not. The 'good' 308 market has always been thin, due to the fact that it costs more in parts and labor to properly service a 308 in 2008 than it did in 1985.....after 25+ years, EVERY car has a 'story'.

 

Hahahahahahahaha!

 

e-mailed the owner about his car, very nice guy, I think you have some information wrong, He suggested to me that he has ABOUT $32k in repairs and I believe him. Engine was sent to Portland and gone through along with other high dollar repairs,. . he's not set his reserve even close to that.


On another note- are you the guy that other f-chat members were betting would not purchase last weeks 308? these guys are pretty anoyed with trying to help you out! Really good people too! As for my advice- if your waiting and think your going to score some super deal on a $12k 308 think again! you will be up to your neck in repair bills in the first month and will sour the ownership exprience. Trying to save $2k on the price of a car will cost you at least $3k in repairs.

 

Tony, I don't have a problem with what your doing but you have asked the upper classmen about 6 or 7 run down 308s all within the $17-$21k price range and never pulled the trigger, quite honestly they have better things to do with their time. As for a so called "daily driver" If you can't afford a $20k something Ferrari theirs NO way your going to afford the maintenance that comes along with that car! Sorry, these are not like a honda accord, you don't just change oil and top off the radiator but you already know this because in one of your other threads you said you have a 308 thats been sitting in the garage for over a year but your just to busy to finish the service. As for being able to afford a $100k ferrari if you choose, Congratulations! Then spending $5 dollars on an f-chat membership is nothing considering all the advice you've recieved from the guys.

 

Tony I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you don't have $50-100k or the ferrari in the garage, and thats okay! All you need is the disire! But don't try to baffle us with B.S. Find a car that fits your budget (i don't think theirs such a thing as a daily driver 308) then get on f-chat every night and find out how to fix every issue one by one on your car and proceed. It might even take a year to do everything but these guys are willing to help in any way if you have the desire, just don't try to blow smoke up their rears. Kim

 

That it can get downright abusive here. Owners have a need in some cases to defend their values (past) at all costs. Shop on! They are only getting cheaper. Don't bother with problem cars when excellent examples will be dirt cheap in 6 months.

 

I haven't seen a drop in prices of any of the "excellent example" 308s and do not expect to. The only ones that are selling "dirt cheap" are the ones that their owners got in over their heads by not understanding how much it would cost to fix their "screaming deal" along with routine maintenance costs. -example - this 79 GTS tony is asking about, owner has $32k worth of reciepts for repairs and vehicle still has a salvage title, an "excellant example" 79 GTS with docs. consistently sell for $30k+ I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but you guys have to quit looking at this through rose colored glasses and get realistic or reality is going to have your posterior for lunch.

 

Speak for yourself, sir. If you have something better to do with your time than offer useful advice to an enthusiast here, by all means go to it. But I dont feel you need to pressure this guy or anyone else into pulling the trigger. The market is tanking big time right now, and while the top priced cars might be slow to come down, if this bloodbath continues everyone of us is going to feel a lot of pain.

But the same rules apply today as always; if your buying, buy the very best you can afford that allows you to keep a reserve. They cars could go down to ziltch in value, but the costs to fix them wont. We are all going to have to accept we are in an upside down market, owning cars worth much less than we paid, or what they were worth even a short time ago, and you will have to decide your best course accordingly.

 

Paul, you need to reread my post as I said I didn't have a problem with this, then you should read the threads from the last two weeks started by tony and see what the consensus is before getting all reved up. As for the bottom falling out of the 308 market, I don't think so- but time will tell.