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1979 Porsche 930 (...and 78's too!)

Discussion in 'Porsche' started by Mang, Jun 9, 2012.

  1. Mang

    Mang F1 Rookie
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    ...seems there are a lot of people (myself for sure) interested in the 1979 model year 930 for a myriad of reasons, so staying on topic, lets focus on some of the special circumstances that exist with these cars.
     
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  3. Mang

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    info; U.S. 79 930’s:

    “1190" US, '79 models (9309800011 to 9309801200).
    *Source: Porsche 911 Turbo 3 and 3.3 litre: Project no. 930, Michael Cotton, Osprey, 1988.
    1979 model year (to August 1979) – 806 produced
    VINs - 9309800011 to 9309800817
    Larger style headlight washers and older style center A/C vents (same as 1978 models)

    1980 model year (continue 1979 series) - 384
    VINs – 9309800818 to 9309801000
    Flush headlight washers
    Updated center A/C vents
    85 mph speedometer (mandated by Sep 79, U.S. Federal Law)
    VINS – 9309801000 to 9309801200
    Flush headlight washers
    Updated center A/C vents
    85 mph speedometer (mandated by Sep 79, U.S. Federal Law)
    Adjustable headlight bezels (somewhere around VIN 1000+)
    Nippondenso air conditioner compressor (somewhere around VIN 1100+)



    copy of a previous post of mine on '79's elsewhere....

    >Looking like a 911 Carrera on steroids, the 930 was a fire-spewing dragon slayer in wolves' clothes. It could run with any street-legal supercar on the planet, including its Italian contemporaries Ferrari 512 Boxer and Lamborghini Countach. At the stoplight Grand Prix, it was among the fastest cars to ever hit the streets. The turbo retained its 'King of the Street' title until the summer of 1979, when tightened emissions laws forced the 930's retreat from the U.S. market.

    Yes, the 930 was reborn for the U.S. market as the "911 turbo" in 1986, but it wasn't the same. What made the Ur-930 famous is its outrageous charisma of being a purebred race car for highway use, making do without complex emissions equipment, stability control, and other electronic systems limiting the driver's input. A mere 2,918 U.S. spec turbos were built during the first four years; few of these monster Porsches have survived, even fewer are in pristine condition.


    A scant 1,200 U.S. turbos were made in '79; almost three decades later, not many low-mileage, rust free examples are left to choose from. As always, the best of the best are destined to appreciate steadily.<

    ....another

    >The 930 was given substantial changes for the 1978 model year. A new 3.3L version of the turbo engine was introduced that gave 300hp @ 5,500 rpm in European tune (265hp in NA spec with the addition of a catalytic converter) with the addition of an air-to-air intercooler and a 7.0:1 compression ratio. A new rear spoiler, known as the &#8216;tea tray&#8217; replacing the &#8216;whale tale&#8217;. 0-60mph was now available in 5.0 sec., 0-100 in 11.9sec, and a top speed of over 160mph. Also tires were widened again, and were now 225/50 front and 255/50 rear. The larger brakes that were developed for the 917 race car, and were shown on the 1975 prototype were introduced, greatly improving the stopping power. The 1979 Porsche 930 was now $45,520 in the US. The car was unchanged for the 1979 model year.

    Porsche decided to pull the 930 from the US market for the 1980 model year, citing too much compromise in meeting US smog regulations. There was a mad rush to purchase the last of the 1979 models, and dealers were charging up to $60,000 for them. The 930 was re-introduced into the US market for the 1986 model year with a 282hp version of the 3.3L engine and continued more or less unchanged until its final year, 1989, when it got the 5 speed G50 gearbox. For 1987 both Targa and Cabriolet versions were offered in addition to the Coupe. A 1989 Turbo Cabrio was priced at $85,540 in the US.<

    ...another quote; reference Yahoo Answers, to "What is the most desireable Porsche?"

    >The most desirable 930 is the 1979 3.3L 911 Turbo.

    The 85-89's got heavier, and softer in terms of driving eperience.<
     
  4. Mang

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    copy from a 1980 Porsche press release....

    Press Release &#8211; Porsche+Audi Public Relations

    Porsche Turbo Retires Undefeated

    City and State &#8211; (dealer) Porsche+Audi, at (address), will be the site of a historic ceremony on (Date) &#8211; one of the last 50 Porsche 930 Turbos for the United States will be delivered to (Name), a (Occupation/Description), in the (City) area.

    Known as the fastest street-legal car sold in America with a demonstrated top speed of 165 mph, the already legendary model will no longer be available here after the last of the &#8216;79s arrive from Germany. (Name), General Manager of (Dealer) Porsche+Audi, says that although the high-horsepower &#8220;flat-six&#8221; engine is capable of meeting current U.S. exhaust emission regulations, modifications to the emission control system and recertification required for the coming model year would be impractical for the limited-production sports car.

    Introduced in 1976 as the Turbo Carrera and renamed simply &#8220;the Turbo&#8221; in 1978, U.S. production of the high-performance luxury Porsche has averaged about 600 cars a year, often with a waiting time of (?) months for delivery of the sought-after model.

    Not to be confused with the turbo-charged version of the Porsche 924 which was introduced this past year, the Porsche 930 Turbo is a derivative of the classic 911.

    Benefiting from the development of the 1,000-horsepower 917/30 which won Can-Am Championships in the early &#8216;70s, modified 911-based Turbos have captured the World Manufactures&#8217; Championship, the International Motor Sports Association Road-Racing crown, and the coveted U.S. Trans-Am Championship. This May, the proven turbo-charged six will power Porsche&#8217;s first entry in the Indianapolis 500-mile Race.

    Porsche engineers have perfected modern automotive turbo-charging, and the &#8220;street-Turbo&#8221; uses a system which many other manufacturers are now turning to in an effort to create more powerful and flexible small-displacement engines. With fuel economy far-surpassing other &#8220;exotics&#8221; in its class, the 3.3-litre fuel-injected engine produces 253 horsepower &#8211; and 0 to 60 mph times of less than five seconds.

    (Dealer) Porsche+Audi will also be presenting Mr./Mrs./Ms. (Name) with a special dash plaque and a certificate signed by Dr. Porsche himself to denote that the car is officially one of the last 50 Porsche 930 Trubos for the United States.
     
  5. Mang

    Mang F1 Rookie
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    #4 Mang, Jun 9, 2012
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  6. Tenney

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  8. Mang

    Mang F1 Rookie
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    Nice...Tenney, just because I noted it....check OUR post counts! :D
     
  9. Michael B

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    #7 Michael B, Jun 9, 2012
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    I think I have shown off my 1978 previously. But what the heck - here it is again:

    Edit, just encase you were not aware. the earlier 930's (like these pictured) had welded on flares from the factory. Whereas the later 911 turbos had one piece fenders with the flairs. Just another tid-bit that makes the early cars so very cool.
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  10. idart

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    78-79 – Front, cross-drilled floating rotors derived from the Porsche 917. These brakes were so exotic, expensive and rare, the Porsche 911 Turbo factory manual recommended upgrading to the post-1980 930 single piece front rotors if they ever needed replaced (Porsche probably had few replacements in stock). When my brakes were acting up in 1990, I almost made this mistake but decided to keep the original floating rotors on the fronts (against the recommendation of the Porsche+Audi dealer at the time)
    76-85 - handcrafted, welded (vs. stamped) fender flares
    76-79 - no electronic gizmos (no power seats, power locks, etc.)
    76-79 - Jekyll & Hyde turbo kick
    76-79 - 3-spoke leather steering wheel
    78-79 - 3.3 liter, intercooler, more power and larger fuel head than 86-89s
    78-79 - heavier than the 76-77 but lighter than the 86-89’s
    78-79 - leather dash
    79 - only year Porsche won Le Mans with a RSR Group 5, 935 (homologated 930)
    79 - last year of the true “930” VIN
     
  11. joe sackey

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    #9 joe sackey, Jun 9, 2012
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  13. Tenney

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    Very observant!
     
  14. onboost

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    Some seem to consistently refer to the 79 Turbo as the last of the breed and/or the earlier 930 with the most significant changes when in fact it was neither.

    The 78 model year was that which ushered in the most significant changes to the early 930 as we know it. As stated by idart in a previous post.

    - The 78 930 brought with it both larger front & rear calipers & rotors, floating rotors on front.

    - The engine was increased from 3.0 to 3.3 liters, larger fuel head used, and the introduction of the intercooler.

    - The tail was changed from the whale tail to the “tea tray”, although here in the US, it was still referred to as the Whale Tail, even by Porsche dealerships

    - There was mention of the leather dash but I think this may have been available on the 76
    and 77 3.0 cars as well.

    The significance of the 79 930 is that it was the last year the 930 was officially imported to the US until 1986. Although production continued through the 80’s, the 930 was only available in Europe and ROW.
    There were no significant changes to the 79 model year beyond those incorporated in 78..

    There were 461 930’s produced for the 78 US production run. Number 461 is a modified car and currently for sale.
    I happen to own car #2 of the 78 production run.. also modified but with parts on hand to return to stock should there be a need.
     
  15. Mang

    Mang F1 Rookie
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    I think it is fair to say that ALL of the 70's 930 models are special. This was a glory period for Porsche and their racetrack worthy developments were quickly incorporated into their flagship 930's. The 930 was one of the fastest/quickest car on the planet, and the 70's cars were to me, just comfortable race cars in luxurious leather.
     
  16. Michael B

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    I think this is just one of those deals.

    I recall stunning a multitude of Porsche enthusiasts when I would tell them that the first year of the intercooled 930 was '78 not the 1979.

    You know how it goes...

    Every early 930 becomes a "1979" to people describing them.
    Just like every Grand National Buick becomes a "GNX" to people describing them.

    Human nature.
     
  17. CharlesE

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    are you sure this is serial # 1200? another person on other other p cars boards said he has it and corroborated by Porsche being the last US car made. it is red.
     
  18. Tenney

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    Yes. Last of the last 50.
     
  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Perhaps I also need a little education on this, because I too am a little bit of a loss as to the exact significance of 1979 car in particular?

    Clearly it is not of production significance because although the 1979 was the last year imported to the USA, this was simply a function of economic & political issues between Porsche Ag and the USA DOT & EPA. Production continued unabated for the rest-of the world, and in fact via personal imports MY 1980 to 1985 cars arrived in the USA.

    The thing to remember with all 930s is that Porsche Ag implemented incremental production upgrades every single year from 1975 to 1989.

    * Speaking objectively from a production variant standpoint, there are only two (2) distinct production variations: 3.0 non inter-cooled cars, and 3.3 inter-cooled cars.

    Clearly everyone has their favorites, whether it be an early raw & lightweight 1975 car with 4 speeds & no inter-cooler, or a late 1989 inter-cooled car with 5 speeds and G50 transmission. They all have their faithful followers.

    In the market, there is no question that nice examples of all 930s are on the rise. Despite the fact that some wish to cling like grim death to the concept of nice examples of 930s bringing no more than $30k, those days are over, period. The fact remains that top examples of the early 3.0 cars are quietly trading for six figures and others are being restored for same. But again, it all depends on the specific car and the range of values remains huge.

    Just thought I'd share my thoughts and hope they make sense.
     
  20. idart

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    Joe,

    Since no one else has chimed in, I’ll take a shot. First and foremost, all 930s are cool.

    I agree with your two distinct production variations; 3 non inter-cooled cars and 3.3 inter-cooled cars but I also believe it’s important to consider the changes in the 3.3 liter cars from 78-89. With the 78/79 cars, the floating rotor front brakes derived from the 917 and 935 make these cars truly unique.

    As time goes by, perceptions change. This is true for anything that is collected; Rolex watches, Nikon cameras or Porsches. For example, the first 100 Nikon F camera’s in 1959 were equipped with cloth shutters. Until the 1990s (when these cameras started becoming collectible) they were unwanted since they didn’t have the latest features. I think the 3.0 liter and 78/79 930 cars are like the cloth-shuttered and early 1960’s Nikon F’s; the first of a breed that were not appreciated until recently. Remember that 930 buyer’s guides told us to: “buy the newest car you can afford.” The Oct 97, Excellence Magazine 911 Turbo price guide told us: “Many Porsche enthusiasts have convinced themselves that the 930 is a rare and collectible car, but the production volume makes this an impossibility. Over the years, more than 23,000 examples were manufactured in Stuttgart.” Only recently has this perception changed where the 930 is being embraced as a collectible car.

    I don’t think the 79’s are more desirable than the 78’s (and vice-a-versa) but I find it interesting that so many subtle changes occurred during the U.S. ‘79 production run. I like the fact that my late ’79 came from the factory with flush mounted headlight washers, adjustable headlight bezels, updated A/C vents, 85 mph speedometer and a Nippondenso A/C compressor. Speaking of this, isn’t it about time that someone write a book on the 930 that truly tells us the history of these cars with all of the detailed production changes from 1975-1989?

    Here’s a link to an image of my ’79 silver, light red/black interior parked by a derelict Atlas ICBM site. Its bone-stock except the 3 liter 180 mph speedometer (still have the 85mph for mileage verification).

    Rich

    http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/930-1.jpg
     
  21. idart

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  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I like your thinking. Love the car! Thanks for sharing...
     
  23. idart

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    Thanks Joe,

    Here's a drawing from the Porsche Technical Specification book on modifying the 78/79 front floating rotors. Old version, beautiful cutaway drawing; new version, fuzzy dark image. I wonder how many 78/79 930 floating rotors were retrofitted as recommended by Porsche+Audi? Original parts for these brakes are "unobtanium" much like the snorkel headlight washers.

    http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/930brakes.jpg

    “Save the Whales” article on the '79 930’s and Mercedes-Benz 6.9’s in the Jan 80, Motor Trend. Article’s opening passage: “But it’s already too late. The last of the exploding harpoons found its mark. The Mercedes-Benz 6.9 and Porsche 930 leviathans are dead. Congressional lobbying could not have saved them. A million fanatical mothers with babes in arms could not have saved them. And neither could the men who made them.”

    http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/930whales.jpg
     
  24. Rafienva

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    Looks like Casa Blanca Beige, sold one just like it in 79.. We were offered 3 extra 930's back then from the VOA Porsche rep (Volkswagen of America)if we took the remaining 14 924 Sebring Editions Guards Red left in port. We did. We took the stripes of the cars and sold them all.
     
  25. CharlesE

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    my 2 cents: when i ws looking for a 930, i was looking specifically for a 3.0. 1 wanted a 3.0 for 1.) waht it reperesents to the Porsche mark and Porsche racing...beign a homoligation special for the street to go racing, and 2.) i liked the simplicity of it over vs the 3.3. after looking for years for the right 3.0 ( let "the one" slip thru my hands) i came across the 79 i purchased. i liked the 79 second to the 3.0s, as it was the last year for the US hand built (welded flares) 930 and 917 brakes. i think at the end of the day (or my lifetime) the values of both will be about the same, but he 3.0s down the road may get a slight premium (similar to early 60s XKEs vs late 60s XKEs. while there are 3.0s trading hands privalety for 6 figures, 79s are also doing the same. i know someone who has a 79 specially built with a cool lineage, and there is now way he will sell it for under 6 figures....if sell it all.
     
  26. idart

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    Charles, what's the cool lineage? I posted an update about my car on the Reenlist "Last 50 Signature Edition thread" and someone mentioned that Al Holbert had some special cars delivered toward the end of '79 U.S. production run.

    Here's an image of the certificate & dash plaque for my '79 930 (originally owned by the late Peter C. Cook, then owner of Import Motors, Grand Rapids, Michigan). When I purchased my car in 1989, it had all the documentation (window sticker, maintenance manual, radio manuals, etc.) but best of all, it came with the last 50 certificate signed by Ferry Porsche.

    http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/9309801164-LastFifty.jpg

    http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp269/carrlane/LastFifty-1164.jpg

    Rich
     
  27. idart

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    #24 idart, Jun 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    ’79 930 that sold for $30K in a March 2012 eBay auction. Amazing that it sold for $30K in this condition. It was not mentioned in the eBay description but this car was one of the last 50 imported to the U.S. (9309801172) but was missing the dash plaque and certificate. This car probably sold for a lot more than the $44K list price when it was delivered to the U.S. in early 1980.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewItem&item=180837611257&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D180837611257%26_rdc%3D1

    Another ’79 930 that sold on the last detail website that was also one of the last 50 cars (also missing the dash plaque and certificate – VIN 9309801175). Looks original except for the 150mph speedometer that replaced the 85mph factory installed unit.

    http://www.thelastdetail.com/galleria_detailed.php?id=224&nhs=260&make=SOLD+CARS

    Some more images of the magnificent 78/79 930 cross drilled floating rotor brakes that were derived directly from the 917 and 935.

    Rich
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  28. idart

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    #25 idart, Jun 16, 2012
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    Porsche went out of their way to highlight the upgraded brakes (front floating rotor) in their 1978 and 1979 U.S. brochures.

    In the book, “Excellence was Expected”, Karl Lundvigsen discusses the 917 brakes that were originally destined but not delivered on the 3 liter cars: “Another component that was originally planned for the Type 930, but not used in its final form, was the laterally drilled brake disc. In fact the cross-drilled discs were shown and publicized at the car’s 1974 introduction, but were not actually fitted to the series-built Turbos. Instead the brake equipment was like that of the Carrera 2.7, with radially ventilated discs and calipers of aluminum on the front and cast iron in the rear.”

    By 1980, Porsche was already planning to phase out this exotic brake and it’s interesting that a photo of 930 brakes do not appear in the German 1980 brochure. Also interesting that they used an early ’79 930 with snorkel headlight washers and the old style A/C vents in their brochure (light blue car below).

    Rich
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