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1980 308 timing

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by MAD308, Jan 5, 2010.

  1. MAD308

    MAD308 Karting

    Feb 19, 2005
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    Marc-André Desrosier
    #1 MAD308, Jan 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Can anybody from the forum could tell me if my bank 1 from my 308 is time correctly. Maybe hard from the pictures alone, but that's the best I could do.
    The car has been experiencing the oh! so red header, and this winter will be the fixer-up time (and money) to put her back on the road.

    Both cams seem to be right on the mark, but I can still lite up a smoke on the header after only 10 minutes, sitting idle on the driveway.

    Thanks
    Marc-André
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  3. PhilB

    PhilB Formula 3
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    The 2nd photo (middle photo) shows clearly that the cam mark is aligned to the cap mark. But the last photo, I can't tell if that is the cam mark, or a shadow of the cap mark shining on the cam.

    Are the belts and tensioners still on the car?

    Phil
     
  4. MAD308

    MAD308 Karting

    Feb 19, 2005
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    Marc-André Desrosier
    Yes, belts and tensioners are still on the car, untouched.

    Regards
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 Steve Magnusson, Jan 5, 2010
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  6. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

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    #5 climb, Jan 5, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
    Marc i have a 1980 308 USA version and it too has the glowing header. I've replaced all the plugs, extenders and wires as well as cleaned the rotors and caps. My next attempt at a fix is to replace the fuel injectors as i think they may be leaking fuel. I actually have glow down into the downpipe where the header tubes meet just before they go into the muffler.
     
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  8. PhilB

    PhilB Formula 3
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    How was the car running before you pulled the cam cover? Also, did you just pull one cover or both?

    The shadow in the lower photo must be the cam indent mark, as if it isn't, you would have had a catastrophic failure as there isn't another indent mark in view in the photo.

    If besides the glowing manifold the engine had some other serious problems, and if you can't tell that what is shown in the photo is the indent mark by rubbing on the cam "shoulder" with your finger where it meets the cap to feel for the indent, then with a 36mm socket turn the motor from the crank in a clockwise direction and have someone watch that cam to see if the indent mark comes around.

    Besides what Stuart ("climb ") said in his post, you should also check air/fuel mixture setting.

    Phil
     
  9. MAD308

    MAD308 Karting

    Feb 19, 2005
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    Montréal, Canada
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    Marc-André Desrosier
    Before pulling the cam cover, the cars had the 1-4 cylinder warning light light up, and been advised to left the car untouched up until I've find out what was the problem(s).
    I did swap the trunk ECU
    Purchased some old one from a fellow FChatter
    Swap the electromagnetic sensor
    Change the plugs (still glowing with less than 15 miles on them)
    Emptied the cats
    Remove the muffler, to get really free flow on both banks, making sure I had no restriction from it.

    Still glowing !

    The shadow is the actual mark, that's the best picture I could take...

    Then how should I check the air/fuel mixture setting.

    Again, thanks for your time.
    Marc-André
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 Steve Magnusson, Jan 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    There are two "marks" -- this show more clearly where it should be for TDC (closer to the "4"):
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  11. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    But Steve, even if the marker is lined up to the -3deg ATDC, is that enough to make ex manifold glow?
     
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  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Probably not (and that's why my first message said "It's not going to make a huge difference").
     
  14. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

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    #11 climb, Jan 6, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
    Isn't the air/fuel mixture controlled by the digiplex units?

    I'd bet many 308 owners have glowing headers and don't know it. You've got to look where the heat shields have peeled back where the air plugs are to even see it.

    Mine can idle all day with no glow but starts to glow once driven. Glow can only be seen in dark and only last for 20 seconds or so (after a drive) once car starts to idle or is turned off.
     
  15. MAD308

    MAD308 Karting

    Feb 19, 2005
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    Marc-André Desrosier
    Now that we have almost ruled out the timing is not the cause of my glowing issues, I'll ask Climb on the injectors. I remembered when I bought the car that when you turned the ignition on, that were no particular sound that could be heard from the engine. I went racing a few while back, and can remembered that from then, there was a whisssssing sound that has became more and more audible. Could this be the sign of a bad injector(s) from that bank.

    Regards
    Marc-André
     
  16. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

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    #13 climb, Jan 6, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
    That i don't know Marc. If you go to Birdman's site he has a service procedure for testing/cleaning the injectors. I don't have access to a tester so i'd just planned to replace mine since their inexpensive. The theory is that they let fuel drip or spray at a lower pressure threshold than they should so the fuel drips into the exhaust and ignites causing the glow.

    I don't understand how the WUR and metering plate and cold start valve work but suspect they could be part of the problem it not working right.
     
  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #14 Rifledriver, Jan 6, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
    Glowing is not normal at idle. It isn't going to be the fuel system either unless both headers are glowing. Diagnosing an injected Ferrari V8 goes like this, If it effects both banks it is fuel related. If it effects one bank it is either ignition or cam timing related. That flow chart covers 90% of the problems. There are exceptions but not too many.


    Your cams are close enough it isnt those.

    Guess whats left?

    Also consider this. For proper combustion to take place it takes compression, spark and fuel. You need to narrow it down to one of those three. I never even begin diagnosis nor will I let my employees until compression problems are eliminated. It is the easiest of the triad to eliminate, it is a common problem and the most over looked. Once that is done you can concentrate on the two that are more complex. If diagnosis is not done systematically it is a cluster F##k.
     
  18. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

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    Is glowing normal then if it doesn't happen at idle?
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Is it bright red in a well lighted area or dull red in a dark garage after a hard run?

    Probably 500 degrees of difference in those 2.
     
  20. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

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    #17 climb, Jan 6, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
    It's got to be dark to see. It's red though. It can idle all day long with no glow but driving at any speed for a few minutes lights it up. Red will go away with 20 seconds of idle or turning off car.
     

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