You are wrong. QV heads will fit a 2v block and 5v heads will fit a 348 block. 5v heads have one extra oil drain back hole that could easily be plugged off. It is the only difference in water and oil passages. My 3.5 liter 328 engine has 355 head gaskets in it. You are just plain wrong.
328, 355 and 360 head gaskets See the difference? 1 oil return hole. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
355 and 328 block. Look kinda the same dont they? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
this is what was initially said... "all along the V8s from the 308GT4 to the 360 included, it is the same engine block" "based on or whatever" was added afterwards. yes same and identical are synonyms. im not sure whats going on here but my words are: "hyenahf said: ↑ 348, 355, 360 engine blocks are the same as 308 gt4’s? Well that’s certainly news to me!" so why is there all this insulation that i ever implied there weren't related or aren't from the same family? now if we got that clear and straight who still think they are the same block? i expect to hear crickets with the parties involve that are painting themselves in the corner.
My suspicion is that your pedantic perseveration over what you consider “same” to mean is what has folks looking at you sideways, so to speak.
yes they look the same but clearly are not. if im plain wrong then i stand corrected however you have demonstrate inadvertently with different water jackets and extra oil drainage hole that the blocks are indeed not the same. thank you. so you able to get a 5 valve head on a 348 motor? find any luck in rotating those 5v cams with a 348 block that has a front cover for a single drive vs a double that reverses the cam phasing? fits but doesnt work, that's besides the point, my point is the v8 blocks not at all the same.
Ah the dogmatism is strong within the group. Once the planets revolved around a flat earth and folks were ostracized, banished or burnt at the stake to say otherwise. It is flat BS that these v8 blocks we speak of are all the same. When time permits, I may go into detail on how the gts chassis isn’t just two more members. I will anticipate selective reasoning here as well. As you can see my ailment is alive and well. Next up we shall take a look at the bottom and the rear output flange of the blocks to see how “same” there are. Have a good day.
...and here again you are completly and utterly wrong; Galileo Galieli, if he is the one you have in mind, was not ostracised or punished for his views about the earth or the planets, contrary to a superficial belief. He was for having published "Dialogue concerning the two Chief Worlds Systems" in 1632, in which he gave the impression of attacking the Pope (Urban VIII), which alienated him the Pope and the Jesuits, which, up to that point, were supporting him. Galileo Galilei suffered then from the inquisition because he dared to criticise the Pope. Already since the ancient Greeks, and with certainty with Parmenides of Elea, in 470 before J.C, the fact that the earth was round was considered very probable or even established. And the Vatican knew it perfectly well, because it has its famous archives. The only reason it was trying to promote the concept of "flat earth" was that it was discouraging people to travel the world and discover different civilisations: if the world is flat, and if you don't know were it stops, then there is a risk to fall into oblivion at its extremities. Only some rather isolated civilisations, like the ancient Vikings, believed the earth to be flat. The Chinese did also, at least up to the 17th century, but they believed that space and the universe was round. Rgds
thats hilarious, so the vatican lied to discourage the people from discovery and not to suppress that it contradicted the bible's teachings of the flat "4 corners of earth"? now I feel even more sorry for scores of molested childern's plight that were swept under the rug to the secret archives by the vatican for decades. galileo was a respected scholar who came from a famous family which is why his head was spared, sadly they incarcerated him for the rest of his life instead. i'm no historian but at least can we agree the earth is round now? https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/galileo-is-convicted-of-heresy i lived in torino near piazza costello 2 blocks away of were the shroud of turin was being displayed in the 90's. a few years earlier they carbon date it and their findings were the shroud was off by about a 1000yrs... there were rebuttals of course, fire, bacteria, repairs etc, lol. i recall all the expats were chuckling about it but you didnt dare bring it up to the locals. folks choose to believe what they want to in spite of the evidence that presents itself. enough of this stodgy talk, the dogmatic reference was intended as a metaphor. nevertheless, here i will let you decide if these two blocks are different or not. thank you for the banter
Just the 430 has a new block: this is well known. Modified, ok, but the block is the same from 308 GT4 to 360 Modena (included). You can put a 360 crankshaft on a 308 GT4. It's the well known "interasse 94" block (wheelbase, means the distance in mm between two consecutive cylinders centers). Ferrari GT cars: only one V8 block up to 430 (that has a brand new one). 288GTO even has the same cranckshaft as the 308 GT4. This above is what I wrote on my book. No discussion about that: this was confirmed (in person, to me) by several official Ferrari sources and Brian (Rifledriver) posted the evidences too. ciao
Well put, and of course you should know: it shows that you should read, and try to understand, what you are posting: the article you quote, which, by the way, cannot be considered in any matter serious, nevertheles says: "despite the fact that scientists had known for centuries that the Earth was not the center of the universe". Seems that it proves my point very well, but you do not want to understand...anyway, this is not the matter here, it just served to illustrate how your reasoning is biased. I have an interview of factory engineers in a french magazine for the arrival of the 430 on the market in which they say that: "after using the same V8 engine block from the 308GT4 to the 360, for the 430 we decided that time has come for a new one". As said by Alberto, who lives close to Modena and has access to those who were there, everyone concerned in the factory acknowledge that it is indeed the same block. I know that the 308/328 had a transverse gear box, and the 348/355/360 a longitudinal one...nevertheless, it is indeed the same block. Case closed, as far as I am concerned. Your eagerness to prove the contrary is in itself admirable, but useless; spending his time on trying to change the intangible is, of course, your entire priviledge. Rgds
albert, please tell me something i dont already know. why are you still regurgitating the same thing? nobody is disputing that 430 isnt different. nobody is disputing that the 308 to 360 arent in the same family. what i am challenging you on is that you said they are all the same block. i hope you didnt write that in your book. now why dont you just simply look at the pics and tell me block are same or not? just because you can swap cranks dosent mean all the blocks are the same. do those pics mean anything to you or is the earth still flat? i have been tinkering my aircooled lately 911. it had twin pluged heads along with earlier rs mahle pistons . The cam carriers and cams from a larger later motor. its distrubutor is from a different block. it basically uses parts from two different motors and blocks. the latest craze is putting gt3 cranks from a meztler watercooled 911 into a aircooled blocks. the crank drops right in and just wrenches up much like the 360s to 308s. this watercooled gt3 cranks fits 3.6, 3.2 and 3.0 aircooled blocks which in themselves are different from one another but they share the same crank journal spacing so the crank fits. got it? cheers
i give up you win since you arent commenting on the differences of the pics and are relying on PR journalism or hearsay. like i said selective reasoning.... now would you like to see whether the gts differs to the gtb with only two added tubes to the sills or might i be just casting pearls before the swine?
No, thanks, I don't need it at all: having one of each in the garage, side by side for eight years now, I think I have all the proof I need at hand, anytime I want. The Rolls-Royce "Merlin" engine has been produced in 65 different variants, with single speed, single-stage supercharger; two-speed, single stage supercharger; two speed, double stage supercharger; different carburetors; no intercoolers, with intercoolers. Different sump casings; going from 990 hp to 2700 hp in six years. All on the same engine block; and it was a "Merlin" from the beginning to the end. For reasons that I can't fathom, you have decided to do your best to prove something against the evidence from those who have designed the engine. Actually, it is a matter of semantics and not technics or design. And in colloquial french we have an expression for this, involving a four letter words and insects. There also was a spanish guy in litterature who fought windmills, etc... In plain other words, I have zero interest in reading your other theory about the GTS and GTB chassis, because I already know that, bar one tube here and there, they are the same. But should you want to expand "ad nauseum", feel free to do so. As I wrote, what you are doing involves insects... Rgds
we can go on ten years: the block is the same, modified. This is official and a fact. Then you can always say that there are different as they have a lot of difference each other, of course. So we can't go on about this discussion, as it's useless. Official is official: source is Ermanno Bonfiglioli, former Ferrari GT engines boss. He is working at Ferrari engine design department from 1966 and counting (!!). I had lunch with him several times: I think he knows "enough" those engines. That was the reason why Ferrari 360 Modena couldn't go up with bore, as there was no more room in that old 1973 cranckcase. I don't understand why you want to say another thing: the 360 Modena engine is quite different from 1983 Dino 308 GT4 one, ok, but the cranckcase is the same. Yes modified, of course, but block measures are the same. Please consider this, to stop this discussion: we are telling the same thing in two different ways. ciao
You are correct, of course. Gilles Villeneuve "factory" 308 GTS even hadn't the increased door sills with the added tube: it was a former prototype and just was a cut 308 GTB. And he did the Montecarlo - Maranello speed record with that… The foot is more important than the chassis… ciao
You guys are making it too complicated, just stick a V-8 in there and be done with it. Image Unavailable, Please Login
so we went from "one additional tube in each door sill, and that's all, period." to "one tube here and there." sounds like somebody is backpedaling. i wasnt aware you have X-ray eyes to see the chassis underneath. i had a pair of 308s as well, i wont portray myself an expert on them. I had a hunch you wouldnt want to see pics comparing the differences between the gts and gtb, it might contradict your gospel.
Extra triangulation in the rear bulkhead areas as well compared to a GTB Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Simon THANK YOU! you know the guys that really tear these cars apart understand these differences. significant changes in the rear bulkhead and B-pillars. A few years back, Formula GT in dm helped in converting a burnt 328 gts into a gtb trackcar. The owner documented the differences in the chassis and the noteworthy improvements in using the gts chassis on the hardtop gtb conversion. I'm sure the guys at MAT, and michelloto etc. intimately understand them as well. best regards !
found some better images of a GTS being converted into a GTB group iv car (federal spec starting point) Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
wonderful images you can see the added member of the gts that triangulates the front upper suspension points to the horizontal upper cowl / a-pillar base area. michelotto added these in with round tubing instead of square since they were missing on the raw gtb chassis they received from the factory. i seem to recall the gts had gussets to strengthen the base of the a-pillars that were not on the gts for obvious reasons?
