1981 QP III 5 Speed and 1986 QP III Auto | Page 6 | FerrariChat

1981 QP III 5 Speed and 1986 QP III Auto

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by William Abraham, Nov 27, 2010.

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  1. c20500

    c20500 Karting

    Aug 12, 2010
    147
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles
    It went from ? to Pantera to Kyalami to QPIII..... a Detomosa budget measure... on one of my previous 4portes.. I used Haltech adjustable coil overs and 5" Springs from Landrum (Nascar size) and did work ok but it was unrefined and harsh. I believe a car of this weight needs a separate subframe front end ala Jaguar not to be harsh but still relatively precise. My latest 4porte had an early carerra coilover set up. MIE said they had issues with the top shock mount shearing off after a while as it was more than double the stress that the coil-overs were meant to take.
     
  2. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    #127 William Abraham, May 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi I followed up with what is being used on Panteras now. Amazing how keen these owners are for sensible upgrade. Fantastic stuff.

    Here is some information and pics. I wonder would these work on the QPIII?

    I hope this is what you want....

    Compressed length 10.75"
    Extended length 16.35"
    Pantera Spring rate supplied @ 375 pounds with a 2-1/2" ID spring
    They come with an adjustable spring perch height sleeve.

    The mounting head is 16 mm wide mounting X 13 mm ID through bolt clearance
    For Pantera's we make a 12 mm ID sleeve that fits into both sides of the
    13 mm bore that extends the mount opening width to 25.5 mm or 1".

    Larry Stock


    Pantera Parts Connection LC
    550 Mallory Way
    Carson City NV 89701

    PH 775-283-4411
    Fax 775-283-4410
    Cell 1-800-DeTomaso 775-800-338-6627




    On 5/3/12 2:58 PM, "William Abraham" <[email protected]> wrote:

    Can you send me shocks and measurements please. Picture would be great!
    Just want to verify....

    Thanks

    William
    On 3 May 2012, at 22:48, Larry Stock wrote:

    Hi

    We sell a QA-1/Carrera adjustable shock system.

    02023D Front QA-1/Carrera shock w/spring $290.00 each

    We accept VISA/MC and ship with UPS or USPS

    Larry Stock


    Pantera Parts Connection LC
    550 Mallory Way
    Carson City NV 89701

    PH 775-283-4411
    Fax 775-283-4410
    Cell 1-800-DeTomaso 775-800-338-6627




    On 5/3/12 2:38 PM, "William Abraham" <[email protected]> wrote:

    Front shocks

    Hi I was advised that my front shock set up is from a Pantera. I have a
    Maserati Quattroporte III. MIE makes a replacement unit but the car sits
    a bit high when it is in place. What do you of/fersuggest for the
    Pantera?
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  3. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    #128 William Abraham, May 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just a couple of pictures of the current state of play. Car bumpers and lights are off and the damaged rear leather quarter panel is off for replacement. I am hoping the colour match is perfect but the trimmer will advise and supervise this.

    I think the car looks great with no bumpers and you can really see the purposeful design. The white lines on the rear is the adhesive tape they use to put on the long UK licence plates.

    I have ordered the new XWXs from Longstone Tyres in the UK and they are shipping them to ALSA direct.

    Ciao
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  4. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    #129 William Abraham, May 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    A quick update on the ZF which is completely stripped down.

    From Wayne:
    "...your gearbox is now fully stripped and inspected.
    I can see the cause of the 2 problems that it has and I am confident I can make it good as new again.
    The main problems are bearings worn to excess and the gear selector mechanism has a lot of wear/play in it.
    I can modify one of my S5-18/3 parts to suit the gear selection problem.
    The main issue is getting some bearings out of Germany. I have contacted them and my man is looking for me.
    Please be patient William, I am on it for you
    All the other components are in good condition , the casings will be bead blasted and the gearbox will look as new when I send it from here."

    Some photos. Amazingly well built.
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  5. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    get bearing # and i will try to save u $$
     
  6. MB_Fahrer

    MB_Fahrer Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2009
    657
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Any further findings on the front shock issue?
     
  7. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    I need to get my old shock (original) to measure and compare to the Pantera upgrade. No word from MIE on front end being raised issue. I may be tempted to just use original front shocks and replace them more often!

    If there is a source to buy the originals!

    W
     
  8. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,060
    Hi William,

    I actually asked Stuart about this the other day, and he basically said that there are no adjustments, it is what it is. The shocks and spring assemblies were produced for Maseratisource under their guidance, but he couldn't tell me where or by whom. They don't really have any tech info about them. He also said that prior to MIE making these, there was next to nothing else on the market.

    He also said that in all the years he's been selling them, only 2 people have mentioned this (guess who....)

    I think the only place that might have originals would be Campana in Italy. It can't hurt to ask.

    Cheers,
    Thor


     
  9. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    Here is the message I got back from Maseratisource

    "Hello william,
    Original springs were very week and did tend to sag over a period of time. I have a Qport 3 in the shop with original and good springs and the cars tends to seat high.this is a later 85 qport. later qports had larger springs and were stiffer than earlier qports form the 79 to 83. if you don't like the height then I suggest that you change the springs for the old ones.they shocks will interchange so it's not a problem.the springs we made are 15% stiffer than oem and are expected to sag over a period of time.
    Best
    Jacques
    - maseratisource"

    The car I put them on that looks high is an 86 so that should pick up on this point. Anyway, the advice seems to be to use them and they will sag over time OR to take the shocks out of the new set and use the old springs? Not sure how you would do this.

    I will continue to consider solutions and on the 81may try to get a useable shock with upgraded bushes or something. I have sent an email to Vari Shock to see if they have a suggestion.
     
  10. MB_Fahrer

    MB_Fahrer Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2009
    657
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Changing the springs seems like a good solution.

    Has anybody here tried getting their shocks tweaked by Bilstein or the like?

    If anybody has any old shocks they'd like to sell either front or rear (preferably both), I would like to attempt to have them rebuilt.
     
  11. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    Hi

    I sent out a number of queries and got an excellent response from Aurok Ltd who handle Ohlins systems. I will send him the old front shocks to see what can be done. It does sound promising if shockingly expensive!!!

    Good morning William.

    It sounds as if the front spring rate is too stiff.
    The damper and spring you show do not appear to be of very good quality.
    The spring is very obviously a cheap one which is shown by the number of coils and there thickness.

    The best way forward would be to test the original spring and damper to ascertain the rate and characteristic of the damper.
    It would then be possible to build an Ohlins dammper which would be adjustable for damping rate to enable the user to 'tune' to their own requirements.
    The damper would be coil over with an adjustable platform height to enable the car to be set up as required.

    The Ohlins damper is not a cheap product.
    90% of the product we sell here is 'bespoke' built to suit each application and we have cured many such problems as you appear to have.

    I hope the above information helps but should you have any questions please don't hesitate to call or mail me.

    Best regards
    Dave

    Hi William.

    It is difficult to be exact but a similar units we used to supply to TVR for their 'press cars' were about £600 each.
    These units had uniball eye attachment which we found gave better control than the std rubber bushings and actually improved the vehicles NVH. (Noise, vibration, harshness.)

    Cheers
    Dave
     
  12. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    600 per shock. i am in a state of shock. by O boy pricing according to what the market will bare. good if u can get the pounds/dollars/euro
     
  13. MB_Fahrer

    MB_Fahrer Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2009
    657
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Rick
    That's only about $6000. Not bad IMO! Ohlins make spectacular products from what I've heard. I have yet to get a set, but I'm sure I'll wind up with a set on a gt3 cup car one of these days.

    William, please do keep us posted on your findings with Ohlins. I would be interested in making an order once the car is running again.
     
  14. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    Well I will see what transpires. If this turns out to be the price then it is around $1900 for the front end.

    The replacement set available from the US is about $2000 for the entire car plus duty shipping and import into the UK for me so comes in somewhere above US $2,600 which is about 1,600 pounds plus you have to add labour charges on top of that.

    MIE has the fronts for about US$850 plus shipping etc. If we can do fronts for 1,200 pounds then it is more expensive but they may sort the ride and weak front end issues out? Maybe as the main issue is the front suspension this would be a better fix.

    In any event, if it works and gives a great ride etc etc then it is not too much more money.

    I am picking up the old shocks to send to him on Tuesday so we shall see!!!

    Ciao Wm
     
  15. MB_Fahrer

    MB_Fahrer Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2009
    657
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Will Ohlins be willing to do the rear shocks as well?
     
  16. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    q
    He agreed to take a rear shock as well so we shall see. I will try to get them sent to him this week.

    W
     
  17. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    Hi

    I was able to get a quote on "Original" shocks from Italy. Not the coil just the shock. It seems this is 1300 Euro for two so 1200 pounds for two including coils etc does not seem too bad now.

    I will send by PM if anyone wants the quote.


    Ciao

    W
     
  18. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    #143 William Abraham, May 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    #144 William Abraham, May 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    #145 William Abraham, May 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    #146 William Abraham, May 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  22. c20500

    c20500 Karting

    Aug 12, 2010
    147
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles
    The rear of the manual transmission QP v8 block is very different.. that extended housing for the clutch and the starter mount among other things... looks like they just machined away around 4-5 inches of the block for the Automatic version and incorporated a motor mount starter bracket. Very interesting.
     
  23. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    If you look earlier in the thread there are pictures of the back in the car with the clutch off showing my (scored) flywheel.
     
  24. Quattroporte3

    Quattroporte3 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2010
    1,060
    #149 Quattroporte3, May 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. William Abraham

    William Abraham Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2010
    830
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    William Abraham
    Just a short update. I picked up the shocks and took them to the Mail Box shop and it would have been 40 pounds plus to ship them! I went online to Parcel2go and got it done for less than half of that.

    Anyway, they arrived safely and I got this very quick reply from Aurok

    "We are a little stretched for time at present as we have some panic work for Le Mans and the cars have to leave Friday at the latest.
    To top that I have a race meeting in Spain so I have to leave the UK in the morning.

    My plan is to remove the springs and test the rate then to also test the dampers just to see how they are performing.
    I will then calculate the cost of build them and to supply 21/4 inch springs which will be adjustable for ride height and relatively in expensive.
    We would supply the dampers with uni ball bearings and spacers to suit your attachments.
    With these we find we have better control of the spring/car and also an improvement in NVH.

    I have scheduled this work for first thing Wednesday when we return to work."

    Apology for not getting to it till next week. Man they should see the service I have had to date!!

    Anyway, the 86 goes to ALSA as it was not getting all finished in a speedy fashion. Good mechanical work but I need to get the car done and on the road.
     

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