I came across this picture in the excellent book "FerrariF1" by Schlegelmilch (a must have for any Ferrari F1 fan). This is from the 1982 Long Beach GP. I'm guessing practice. There is Villeneuve in front in the #27 car and the second Ferrari is behind him. BUT: That car too is #27. Pironi had #28. What gives? Also I tried to "zoom in" on the second car. Look at that helmet. That's not Pironi's white (and blue) helmet there. If anything I'd say that's another Villeneuve helmet. What happened here? I doubt Schlegelmilch photoshopped anything. Why would he? Did Pironi's car not run (mechanical or crash) and he had to take the muletto, which had Villeneuve's number? Why couldn't they switch the numbers? Whose helmet is that? Just a weird angle or Pironi used Villeneuve's helmet? Why? Or is that a third driver? I don't think they had one at the time. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hmmmm..... Interesting..... My 02c; - There isn't anyone in the second car - I don't think we're looking at a helmet. - The T-cars generally had a "T" designation next to the #; "27T" would make sense. However, things were different back then and it wasn't always applied. But I could be wrong. Cheers, Ian
Very interesting picture indeed. Can't really tell if there is a helmet in the back car but it is definitely not Pironi who wore a white and blue helmet. May be the car in the back has no driver.
I think you guys are right. There is no driver in the 2nd car. Still leaves the number issue, but Ian might have nailed it. PS: I'm building a 1/12 scale model of that car and "research" of paint schemes etc is maddening as they seem to have changed many things around that (tragic) season. And the pics are so few.
Looking at your zoomed in shot, it's vaguely possible that the white "paint" below the "2" of the second car is in fact a taped on "t" - There's something there that's not on the lead car. Concur with research difficulties - Before the days of digital and the WWW of course.... Having said that, I don't believe they changed the "main" color that season (?) Cheers, Ian
I have the same book! I won it in the first annual ferrarichat f1 contest; autographed too.. I'll have to research that photo- interesting
That book is worth its (heavy) weight in gold for "research" and looking up all things F1 Ferrari. It doesn't answer all questions, but it is a very good starting point. Great that you even got it signed. I love any book signed by its author. I get that. I know our own Jack has been to that race. Would be neat if he had some pics. Well the cars were always red. But the sides (above the skirts) were aluminum in some races and black in others. Rear wings were sometimes silver on the outside, sometimes red, sometimes silver on the inside, sometimes red. I thought it was consistent by driver (or at least car # after the losses of Gilles and Didier) but the paint scheme isn't even consistent on that basis. Add to that configuration changes like no front wing at all or the experimental double rear wing Gilles tried in Long Beach (not on this shot). So instead of building "a #27" or "a #28" car it is rather, lets pick the paint/build scheme for race xx for driver yy. Or in other words: Whatever I paint the sucker, I won't be wrong. Nor right.
When you look at the top of GV's helmet compared to the roll bar, and do the same with the second car, unless that driver is Arturo Mezario, then it is only a helmet, no driver. As for the nose and the duplicate number, they could have been using a spare #27 nose for various reasons. Possible a different spoiler setting. Or that is the back up car also having different settings, suspension, etc, waiting for GV to give it a try.
Nobody in the 2nd car, and he second 27 car was Villeneuve spare car, most likley with Comprex system for practice. Ferrari were testing the system in late 81 and early 82 before deciding that it was not working.
The front wing with some red canopy was actually mounted to the chassis. The part where the 27 is, is already part of the removable body. Aha! I'll take that comment to the bank. Thank you.
No it's empty. Look how height his helmet is. You wouldn't be seeing so much through the roll hoop if there was a driver.
I sat right there for that race and have a bunch of pics from pit lane over the weekend. Teams typically had a third "scavenge" car in the pit lane because they garaged at the expo hall, which was a few blocks away. If I had to guess, they had the spare prepped for Villeneuve and likely kept a Pironi nose by the wall, just in case. Detroit was a similar setup - I remember 1984 when "DeCrasheris" wrecked 2 cars in practice. We were inside the expo/garage when he came stomping in, sweaty and angry, followed by 2 tow trucks pulling his wrecked carnage.
I knew you had something insightful to say to this, Jack. However as I mentioned to Ron: There was no such thing as a "Pironi nose" as that part was part of the car. The "Pironi part" was the entire body except the nose.
Does this picture answer any questions, taken by our engineer, probably the same day, GV heading out to practice. note the side cutters on the pod of the back up car, looks like a potential case of FOD. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Fascinating picture: Totally different body shape for the front axle. Looks much more like the 81 car.
To illustrate that point here a shot of my model (work in progress). The part with the #27/8 is the entire removable bodywork. Unlike today's F1 where you can replace a nose during a pitstop. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yes. If you don't have it yet, buy it. Schlegelmilch's fotography is top notch, but we know that already. What makes this book so great (to me) is that he systematically documents Ferrari in F1 from the fifties to the MS era. Team, cars, drivers, helmets, engines, you name it. For me it is the #1 encyclopedia I use to look up F1 stuff related to Ferrari. If I don't find the answer in this book, I start going through my other books. Maybe I'm missing something, but to my (limited) knowledge this is the only book that bothers to list all F1 Ferraris. Which kinda boggles the mind. It is such an obvious topic yet all other books I ever found only covered certain cars (normally the WDC/WCC winners). Then again a similar thing could be said about the roadgoing Ferraris or the other Ferrari racecars.
Thanks! I'll have a thread about it in the models section when it will be complete. I'm guessing another month out or so.
Very true - you're right. Too used to modern racing vernacular, but like you pointed out, they would pull the whole upper bodywork off. As I recall, this was typically done to allow the driver to get in/out of the car as well. Can't remember if they always did it, but it was a regular affair. I'll look and see which pics I have scanned in.
