1983 Ferrari 400i Convertible Chassis 46859 | FerrariChat

1983 Ferrari 400i Convertible Chassis 46859

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by samsaprunoff, Oct 13, 2018.

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  1. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2004
    4,188
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Full Name:
    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day All,

    In the continued spirit to document our cars... 46859 is listed on Ebay:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-400I-Spider-Conversion/223181911309?hash=item33f6adb50d:g:FbkAAOSwR~tbvEX7&vxp=mtr

    Wow...46859 looks to have had a really tough time in its life... yikes... I am unsure if I have seen a more knackered car... except those that were damaged by fire, flood, etc.

    I did search for 46859 on F-Chat and found a few brief posts on the car, but nothing as substantive as the Ebay ad and so I thought I would start a dedicated thread on the car.

    Cheers,

    Sam

    1983 Ferrari 400i Convertible
    Color: Yellow Exterior with Dark Grey(?)/ Black (?) Interior
    Mileage: 38421 (?)
    Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
    VIN: ?
    Chassis: 46859
    Asking: $22750 USD

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  2. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,875
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    This car is not as bad as it seems: body is not plague by rust and engine seems to have been somewhat taken care of (noticed the injection?). Interior is definitively neglected, but I'd rather buy a Ferrari with dried leather rather than engine issues. 15.000~25.000USD is basically what it would take to save this car (not a full resto, but working conditions). There are not so many convertible out-there, let's hope it will find a new (passionate) home.
     
  3. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
    4,188
    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Raemin,

    I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as I see a lot of issues. In reality to truly understand the car's needs one would need to inspect the car in person. From the pictures I can see that to sort out the interior will be pricey. As an example, my car's the interior was not anywhere close to condition of this car and it required a full replacement of all the pieces. The reason? The original leather was very, very dry to a point where the stitches would break when sat. The result was over $13K just to redo the interior to a very nice quality...not concours, but simply a very nice driver's quality level ... and that price did not include any labor for removal and reinstallation, etc. If the top needs replacement, this can easily be several $1000 too. Given the amount of surface rust that is visible and that the car has sat for some time, I would suspect that the braking system may need a complete overhaul... which will not be a cheap undertaking. As for the engine, transmission, steering, tires, etc... Given the car's obvious neglect I cannot see that these areas will not need some attention as well. With that said, I think your estimate is highly optimistic, but I do share your hope that the car does find a good home.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  4. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,875
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    #6 raemin, Oct 15, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
    I must admit that having two brothers at the board of f400club makes my life easier when it comes to finding the right persons and parts, but all in all our maintenance costs seem much more affordable here in Europe, which is probably why the market-value is higher on this side of the Atlantic.

    When I read your quotes, I really come to appreciate my suppliers! I guess there is a reason why my mechanic is currently working on two 400i and have another two (including mine) in the queue (engine overhaul : 6000€~12000€). Same story for the machinist : he has something like 50 engines in the queue: crankshaft alignments, hardening, main bearings replacement (custom oversize), "unbending" of piston rods, boring cylinders to 2nd oversize, fixing cracks in the head, valve guide replacement, flywheel repair, ... for the whole of it I was charged ~5000€ (excluding parts). As for leather, refurbished dashboard did cost me 400€ two weeks ago (excluding removal & installation). TRX tires are 390€. All these prices do include 20% VAT.

    Until recently, the Ferrari official network would not take care of these, so we had to rely on less prestigious shops that have now developed a real knowledge of these cars without the scary price tag. Last but not least many cars have been scrapped, so parts are easy to source (by vintage Ferrari standards). All in all we've got here a "grey" market very specific to this Ferrari.

    Back to the subject: these Straman conversions are the most desirable topless 400i. Baur & Fly Studio attempt were far less elegant. Needless to say it is now almost impossible to modify an existing car and pass controls. Under other circumstances I would agree that a car in such conditions should be used for parts, but maybe not this one.
     
    Attila400 and Jasonberkeley like this.
  5. Choptop400

    Choptop400 Karting

    Oct 10, 2014
    138
    Huntington, NY
    Full Name:
    Frank L Caponi
    Straman conversions are the most desirable topless 400i?

    Maybe the most numerous, but I question your statement the most desirable. I do have a dog in the fight.

    Ferrari's are meant to be driven, let's hope this one gets another chance to run with the herd.
    Frank
     
  6. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,875
    Lyon (FR)
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    R. Emin
    Correct. I almost forgot the excellent article by Paul on f400club: Pavesi Stommel and Autokraft were also quite nice. Maybe the Pavesi has the highest market value (except for the last version?), but the Straman(s) were not just nice, they were also designed to drive well. By contrast, I was disapointed by the 365 shooting break: it looked good on pictures, but in person the car looked cheap. When it was on show in Geneva the car had a lexan rear windscreen and the interior was missing a lot of leather in order to be in par with the regular 365. Maybe this was later fixed, but Straman conversions were much better.

    Regarding rarity, Paul said Straman did cut 20 cars.

    I do not remember who was selling conversion kit "alone", was it Pavesi or Straman?
     
  7. Choptop400

    Choptop400 Karting

    Oct 10, 2014
    138
    Huntington, NY
    Full Name:
    Frank L Caponi
    I believe Straman claimed he cut 49 Ferrari's. Cannot remember were I read this or heard a rumor to this fact. Also to be included in the discussion is the German firm Stommel Con-Moda that cut 3 365GT4 2+2 (no records of course). I found the owner of one of the other ones at FCA2018. So at least I can confirm with certainty that there are 2. Mine 17675 is believe to be one of them.
     
  8. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,875
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    The Stommel is the one with the rigid cover right? There used to be a photo of one of these cars on FerrariClub400, unfortunately the article was removed, but maybe you can contact the original author (Paul Dubois) and ask him for the photo used in his document: could be your car...
     

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