1984 400i #050679 in LA - purchase question

May be helpfull to post this in the 400 subsection. very active section with lots of active 400 owners.

just my $0.02... i never by a car sight unseen...

 

Welcome aboard Nathan.

When I entered the SN in the search function 4 threads came up, here is one of them:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=208371&highlight=50679

Re rust: some later 400s were galvanized (this one probobly was), however as the 400s are much more complex than 308s, I would worry about the mechanical bits more than the body at this point.

Also, if you become seriously interested in the car I strongly advise spending the money on an independant PPI and if it passes, visit the car in person before buying it.

Good luck! If you get it, I hope you bring it back to its former glory!

Art S.

 

Do a search for the VIN. There have been several past post related to the car, in particular the "Transmission growls a little in 1st but the rest of the box is extremely nice."
ed

 

Nathan,
That car has been for sale for a Looooooooong time. Not sure what this means except many of us that have looked at it have come to the conclusion that it is not a good buy at the price point.

I spoke briefly via email with Gary Bobileff in CA about tranmissions for 400 cars, and he led me to believe that unless I have very deep pockets that I shouldn't go there...now if you are a mechanic or have access to the type of equipment to do this yourself, it may be a different story, but parts for those cars (as you explained already that you are aware) are not inexpensive.

Ask some of our fchatters in the 400 section to go test drive and look at the car for you.

Regards,
MB

 

I went to see that car months ago. The body is pretty bad when you're up close and personel. It photographs well, yet there are some serious cracks and rust bubbles. The interior looks fair, but not really insperational. I remember thinking the seats seemed really overstuffed and later realizing that is how they were originally. This car has been for sale for a very long time and I'll guess that if you walked in there with 10/15K it would be yours. The "dealer" selling it is located in a pretty rough neighborhood. This is one car you definitely want to have inspected before purchase.

Cheers,
Paul

Edit: As I recall, around Febuary or so it was on Craigs List for a few thou less than the $26K there asking now.

 

Jason,

Just FYI, the car does not have any timing belts, it has timing chains - though these and their tensioners may be due for replacement. I suspect the engine will run $2,500 - $4,500 assuming nothing major is wrong (half for parts).

$2,500. will not fix the tranny. Plan on pulling it (and doing the clutch and u-joints while you are in there) for $5,000 - $7,500.

If you have a PPI, pay careful attention to the engine. My car had great leakdown and compression on all 12. However, when we opened it up (for a relletively minor problem), we discovered that the patchwork inside necessitated a total rebuild; $30,000 later... This is where an in-person visit will pay off. Drive the car, make sure it behaves well from cold start through a good hard run.

Tires: check the date codes, 12 year old hockey pucks do nothing for the driving experience. TRXs are ~$2,000, it may make sense to switch to 16" rims as you will have better, cheaper tires available.

Does the suspension work well? Make sure they check it carefully during the PPI - these are difficult and costly to put right.

Lastly, is the body and interior nice? Least important - in my opinion. These are the PF bits, not the Ferari bits.

Finally, drive the car to see if you like it, the 5-speeds have a surprisingly heavy clutch.

In writing this, I'm not trying to discourage you. I bought my 330 when they were the runts of the litter. I've really enjoyed the car but some of the experiences were quite painful, so make sure you are prepared for what I described. If you are, you will end up with a really great car in the end!

Regards,

Art S.

 

Jason,

Like ArtS, I'm not going to discourage anyone from buying a vintage or classic Ferrari...my examples of each have brought me great joy, as well as some heartbreak and big fat checks written. There will be a third one, if not a fourth.

However, from reading this thread and the description of the car you're considering, my advice is to step back, take a deep breath, and look at other cars in the 365/400 2+2 series.

Looks like you're on the mid-east coast, near a strong nucleus of Ferrari enthusiasts and proximate in both directions to a goodly supply of cars.

Probably no need for you to buy sight unseen, but I certainly can't preach what I haven't practiced so far...first time I saw both of my cars was when they rolled off the transport truck.

Points:

-Take your time, look around, hang out here and on Tom Yang's board, buy the best car you can afford.

-Even that best one is going to set you back some $$$ along the road of ownership---take it as scriptural truth. Buying any marginal Ferrari is a huge mistake unless you're an expert mechanic with time, tools, space, and money.

-Current market is a buyers one.

 

So does this car have a sunroof or what...?

Good luck, Jason...!

 

Jason:

I bought the cleanest 400i you have ever seen and over paid for the car.(36k) Three months after buying the car it started to blow smoke and ended up having to replace a valve guide which led to a magnitude of problems. 9k later my car is back in tip top shape even though it still bleeds on the garage floor. The 400 is my third Ferrari and while it has been the most costly I truly love it and think it is a fantastic car. The other advice members have given on waiting for the right car is so crucial. I spent a year looking for the right 400i and when I found this one I paid extra because it was so clean. While I thought I had bought it right I got surprised by the 9k repair bill. It is the price of admission to be in the 400 club. My kids can ride in it with me and we really enjoy it . Most of the 400's I see seemed pretty worn out because they have been neglected because of the high cost to maintain them. Find yourself a great mechanic and budget in a fair amount to bring your car up to speed. My mechanic is $90 an hour and gives me breaks here and there.

Anyway, I attached a few pictures of mine to prove there are some really clean 400s in existence and good luck on your search. I did see one in San Diego that was in pretty good shape if I run across the info I will get it to you.
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Jason,

If you do look at 38859 (the morrone car), take lots of pictures and start a separate thread on it with your opinions - the documentation will be very useful!

If the blue one is the car that Brettski worked on, then it is apparently a known car in NICE shape (strictly based on discussion here and my bad memory - no direct knowledge).

Regards,

Art S.

 

Awesome - can you post pictures of the 1800...?

Art, I have 38859 as a 308 GTSi.

 

Interesting that you've been here less than a month and already you know that I like cars in black.

But no matter the color, the 1800 is a beautiful car - and she looks fantastic in white! Congratulations!

 

Nathan, looks like this car is also up in Canada. I have no affiliation with the seller or interest in the sale, etc...just passing along the link. Good luck with the hunt.

http://www2.thecarexperience.com/pls/carexp/carexp_public_ads.car_page?p_car_id=51534

 

Jason,
i know for a fact that the blue Series 1 in Montreal is sold...the purchser has been in regular contact with me and he'll collect it any day now.

Art,
it is a different car...the one your thinking of was the Chiaro 412 from Marseille.

 

So I looked at every car anywhere for quite some time. This particular one has some problems. According to the seller it is registered in CA but the DMV has no record of it....
The dealer also never was able to send me picks of the stickers... I suspect this car may not be legal. Since you are not in CA, smog may not be a big deal, but you can't register it if it was never imported legally.

Did you see the bobilef car? Silver, single owner series 2 with 10 years of records (i had them scan and send all of them) incredibly clean body (San Diego entire life, MD owned, good service records)
it needs a paint job and new front bumper. I saw a little leaking from the right rear suspension. I think the leather may have been dyed in, but overall, for the price... $22k...
it has been there, on consignement for over 8 months. I think they would take 15.

http://www.bobileff.com/ferrari_frame.html

 

hey J,
the blue Montreal Series 1 5-speed has been at my shop for 1 week now...we've ordered the required parts it needs to obtain it's Safety Cert.
without putting to fine a point on the purchase price, i can say this...the owner negotiated a very good price for the car and had the seller do a lot of necessary work prior to delivery. we will now add new Rutlands rear self-levellers, remove and cerama chrome the headers, add new stainless straight pipe center sections and Ansa rear silencers (the existing OEM system is rotted), a new high torque gear reduction starter...and more

all this and there is still no verification of the last valve adjustment (which we are not performing at this time) and we do have some 'mild' compression concerns...nothing truly frightening but it's definitely not ideal. so, as beautiful as it is, it definitely has some work ahead of it.

having said that, i will say that by next spring, when his valve adjustment and water pump are done, he will be into the car for between $45-50K US.

and i know that he will be very comfortable with that because it will be an outstanding automobile.

i know many other people in exactly the same position (including myself) with their 365/400/400i 's and i believe we are all very comfortable with it.