1985 400i 5 spd / Long overdue / 12k Service

I have been lurking for years. On the journey of finding the right one to purchase. The 365 GT/4 2+2 was my bedroom poster car in the 1980's. I've spent decades (joyously) with vintage BMW's, more recently with Jaguar E Type's, 230 SL Pagoda's and early Porsche 928s. But always with an eye for this 2+2 Ferrari, when Pininfarina was at their peak. An understated and perfectly proportioned large GT Coupe.

This is my first Ferrari purchase. After 1 year of searching I purchased ZFFEB07B000054913 from Mark Hyman (Ltd.) in St Louis. This car came up briefly on this forum last month when @J Ingram took interest in it questioning 400i values. I flew to St. Louis and did a full PPI including compression testing prior to purchasing. Details to follow, but it is a D.O.T. certified conversion, 054913 is a 5 spd 1985 example, held by one owner in NYC as a part of a large collection recently disassembled on his passing. It has early records of servicing and is a true 12,400 mile example with the original interior and original paint work. It appears to be completely original except for the center mufflers and horrible D.O.T. welding behind the bumpers. It came with the toolkit, jack, original key set, owners manual, First Aid kit, early service records, new TRX's, lots of maps of Long Island, cassette tapes (Big and Eric Clapton and Vivaldi fan).

The long journey of collecting all the manuals and period literature has started. There is a clear plan.

Hyman did an exemplary job of recommissioning with basic fluids flush, belts and filters. It runs 'good', and the A/C is is now on R134 and both units blow cold.

As a deep method of becoming familiar with Ferrari mechanical design, servicing and enjoyment, I am going to do the full 12k recommended service on the car. Albeit, 3 decades later. But sticking to the exact service protocol, each step of the way. This will be in conjunction with other major servicing items as I discover along the way.

I look forward to the comments and welcome constructive input on part suggestions, modern solutions to servicing and suggested sources. I am very excited to get started.

Here are a few pics 'as delivered'. I would call these 'before photos'.

Regards,
Paul Cain

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@raemin Thank you for the intro, thoughtful suggestions and experience.

I am going to heed your advice and begin searching for that 365 owner's manual as I was looking for experience and guidance on the trans and diff oils.
This car has the MSD 6A ignition, still with the O.E. M-Marrelli coil. I've had very good success using MSD's suggested 'blaster coil' along with slightly larger plug gaps and was considering experimenting with that CDI coil.
I have no pretense of cruising at 180 KPH in so. cal so I think I will start with the BP6ES.

For engine oil, on these 'older' (pre-variable valve timing viscosity finickiness) motors I've been using Castrol 20W-50, but might narrow that based on your suggestion.
I was particularly interested in your antifreeze comments. (Somebody load this car with what appears to be 80% Prestone). I've been down a long road getting a 4.2 E-Type's cooling system under control to tolerate Calif. freeways and high temp traffic. It was a long journey. What I've landed on was a combination of 20% BMW OEM anti-freeze, 80% distilled water and <1% Redline water wetter. Water is the most efficient conductor and I have no need for the 'anti freeze features' of coolants, just after the lubrication and anti corrosion properties. ( I am stunned at the acreage and mass of this Ferrari radiator!)

Did I mention that Serbia is my new most favorite country for tire supply?
Your comment about the 'new' and excellent compound on the TRX's is most encouraging!

Thank you again for your fine contributions!

Paul
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@Steve Magnusson Thanks for the follow up. I did notice that missing 'bridge hose' as it was clearly visible in all of the literature, but missing on this car. I am a big fan of CIS injection once sorted. I could not agree more, having identical pressures on the two fuel distributor pintles is a key foundation for tuning success. There is a slight difference in plug coloring on each bank and this was going to be Step one in trying to tune the system(s), step 2 will be installing a pair of Oxygen sensors bungs just aft of the collectors.

 

@raemin Noted on those plug gaps. I keep the stock spec. / gaps. (welcome to the V-12 world where the duty cycle on that single coil is double that of a 6 cylinder!).

Lots of fluid similarities with the vintage BMW world - fully concur on that ATE Type 200 fluid.

Factoid: the 400i shares the same basic ATE caliper design (rebuild kits are the same) as the BMW 2800 CS, Bavaria, 2002tii, 3.0CS CSi, CSL Coupe, 530i (e12) and early 6 series (e24) to 1982. Caliper spacers all differ. I am guessing that the spacers on these 400i's will be much larger. Fluid bleeding sequence is inner lower nipple 1st, lower outer 2nd and upper outer 3rd. 2800 CS shown.
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Thanks for your kind welcome. This example is not C.A.R.B. certified. So, it will be a Montana registration. With no Cats, and no history in Calif. there is no point in approaching the CA DMV.

 

I have a question about the starting circuit on the 5 spd version of the 1985 400i. After an extensive chassis cleaning, I blew fuse 15 (cold start valves) and after replacing the fuse, I still have no energy to the WUR or the cold start injectors. Motor cranks and spins as normal, but no fuel delivery to the injectors. System and control fuel pressures are spot on.

I've consolidated the multiple and fragmented Ferrari circuit diagrams (color codes, pin outs, relay descriptions and polarity) into a single page to make diagnosis and fault finding (theoretically) easier. See attached.

My question is: where is the power source for fuse 15 on a 5 spd? According to the factory diagram, the power for fuse 15 comes from item 76 Starter relay solenoid (automatic only). The only circuit diagrams I can find are for automatic versions. This is a 5 spd and am curious how this circuit is wired. Totally flummoxed. Thank you.
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Steve,
Thanks for the prompt reply. Some clarifications:

....am I saying 1) that when you operate the starter motor using the key in Pos III you get no +12V power to run the fuel pumps (nor the WUR heaters and cold start injectors) Yes, that is correct. No power to the pumps or WUR at Pos II or while cranking.

but when I run the fuel pumps by some other means (like jumping the fuel pump relays), then the pumps work fine and the system and control fuel pressures are OK? Exactly.

Or are you saying: 2. the fuel pumps actually run during starter motor cranking, (The do not) but you have no +12V power to the WUR heaters and cold start injectors? Correct, no power.

The car ran great before the steam cleaning of the chassis. After a few days of drying, it still wouldn't start, that's when I discovered fuse 15 was blown, I replaced the fuse only to discover that I still at that fuse at ign. positions I, II or III. My plan was to keep chasing the sources of voltage supply upstream when I discovered all the wiring diagrams are for automatic cars. Or, did Ferrari have only one "global' harness for all models Stick or Auto and then shunted the auto trans switch function.

I did a continuity test and I have continuity on the white wire exiting the fuse panel and the 15 position fuse holder.

Thanks again for any insight!

 

Steve,
I can get the pumps to run (thru the harness) with the ignition at position one, only if I disconnect the 2 pin switch at the air flow meter.

Report on the white wire: I get 0 volts at the white wire at ignition 'on' and 0 volts while cranking. I am very curious where this while wire connects at the other end. Is it relay 76 (starter motor solenoid)? This relay (76) is labeled for automatic cars only. This is the element that is confusing.

Thanks for any head scratching ideas.
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@raemin Thanks for your input. I am going to make a jumper harness in the morning to the second (pass side) air flow meter to use the switch from that airflow safety meter on the off chance the original (drivers side) switch is defective.

I will also monitor voltage and ground at the thermo time switch when dead cold in the morning and report back.

Thanks.

 

@Steve Magnusson

I agree the relay positioning and image is confusing. We have two that are description vague: a "starter servo relay'' in the red rectangle box in my original post (above) and we also have the famous Relay 76 for the starter solenoid (labeled for automatics).

Regarding what is in my "Z" position on the top left...... Yes it is there and occupied. It's a tower relay. See attached images of the wire color codes at the base of the bosch connector housing (totally diff color codes & no white wire), a pic of the only lettering / part no. on this relay and it's pin out configuration. I pulled it and replaced it with a box style Bosch ...113. Outcome? ....no change in cranking behavior.

What is really odd is that I can hear/feel this "Z" relay click (open / closed) when I remove and replace it. All with the ignition fully off. Clearly pin 86 is powered all the time and the only thing 'on' on this car are the two dome lights. Something else to chase as this is a battery drainer.

Lastly that "B" wire. It seems as if there is an open circuit on this 'B' branch. As you mention the large white is working fine as it cranks as normal. Small "B" has no voltage. What do you think of this test? -Run a jumper from white at the starter to this test probe location and and 're-energize' this small "B" wire?

Thanks again for your insight.


This is not good. That B (white) wire must go +12V during starter motor cranking to get the fuel pumps to run if the engine is not drawing in enough air to open the 2-pin switch at the air flow meter. The relay figure in your OM also seems confusing. The text for this figure below indicates that relay 76 (or relay Z in this figure) should be the ...113 type (as does the schematic for relay 76) -- but this is the small cube style relay while the picture of relay Z in the OM figure shows a different style relay there:
View attachment 3449110

Can you post a picture of what you have in the relay Z position? Is there a relay there, or just wires going to an empty relay socket, or maybe wires going to an empty relay socket that has a metal jumper piece in it to connect a large BN (white-black) wire to a large B (white) wire and a small B (white) wire (this would be my guess based on the OM information if they used the same harness for automatics and manuals and deleted relay 76/Z from the manual cars)? The large B wire goes to the starter solenoid so that must be OK as your starter is working, and the small B wire is the wire that you are investigating (on the OM schematic they are connected together by the internal construction of relay 76).[/QUOTE]