1986 TR ignition cut out | Page 5 | FerrariChat

1986 TR ignition cut out

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Guss23, Jun 8, 2021.

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  1. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    The TR SPC figure is correct (if a little unclear):

    https://www.ferrariparts.co.uk/diagram/ferrari/testarossa-tr-90/014-secondary-air-pump-and-lines-(for-us-and-ch88)

    hose 43 connects to port 2 on the electrovalve
    hose 44 connects to the differential pressure switch
    hose 45 connects to port 1 on the electrovavle
    port 3 of the electrovalve is left open to the atmoshpere
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  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    My notes have the US TR injection ECU, Ferrari PN 125134 = Bosch 0280800144

    I believe all US TR use the same injection ECU, but yours should have a label on them showing the Bosch part number:
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  3. Guss23

    Guss23 Karting
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    Does the kJetronics and the KE jetronics have the same ECU?
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    K-Jetronic (without Lambda) early euro TR do not have injection ECUs.

    KE-Jetronic (with Lambda) US TR use the Bosch 0280800144 ECUs.

    KE-Jetronic (without Lambda) euro TR use Bosch injection ECUs (but I don't know which one, and it has a different Ferrari part number than the US version injection ECU).
     
  5. Guss23

    Guss23 Karting
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    OK, I thought I had found the issue with a minor manifold gasket leak but after fixing it, it still misses and surges under full load. I did check the potentiometers and they tested OK. I tested the protection relay and it was good. Both fuel pumps put out 5.5lbs. I rechecked the mixture and throttle settings and they are good. I did take it out and experimented with it a bit. I realized that if I only give it about 65-70% throttle, it is fine but by giving it a little more it starts to mis-out and stumble. Again, it does not do it when its cold and it does not do it when hot and not under load.

    How do I test the bimetallic thermoswitch, and the water temp sensor? Could this be caused by a barometric capsule? Is there a way to test the FI ECUs?
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Have you confirmed that the WOT portion of the throttle microswitch is working? Terminal 3 should be connected to terminal 18 at large throttle opening (i.e., terminal 5 at the injection ECUs should be +12V at large throttle opening).

    Measure the voltage on one of the O2 sensors single wires at warm idle when plugged in = it should be "wandering" between 0.1V and 0.9V (i.e., running closed-loop). If it just stays a fixed 0.5V = it's wrongly running open-loop.

    Already given in post #23.

    No, IMO (but the test for the barometric capsule operation is given in Diagnosis Sheet N. 6).

    Diagnosis Sheet N. 6
     
  7. Guss23

    Guss23 Karting
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  8. Guss23

    Guss23 Karting
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    Post 23 is for the thermister. Do you test the water temp sensor the same way?
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 on page D105 is mislabeled -- it should be "Thermoswitch for coolant temperature (63/36 deg C)". #14 is the bimetallic thermoswitch (cold = closed = runs open-loop and air injection system "on"; warm = open = runs closed-loop and air injection system "off").

    PS That schematic on page D105/D106 is a little incomplete for a US version -- better to use the US TR 509/88 wiring diagram Fig 3 (if you don't have the wiring diagram for an early US TR). Give a shout if you don't have a copy of 509/88 (but I've posted a link to it many times).
     
  10. Guss23

    Guss23 Karting
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    How do you check WOT at the ECU??
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    (Key "off") At the unplugged injection ECU (either one), measure the resistance between pins 1 and 5 in the harness connector:

    not WOT = should be infinite Ohms

    WOT = should be 0 Ohms (meaning maybe just a few Ohms maximum)
     
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  12. Guss23

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    In reading the manual under symptoms it lists warm start control pressure too high after warm up. How is this checked?
     
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    There is no "warm start control pressure" in the US TR KE-Jet system (that only applies to the early euro TR K-Jet system).
     
  14. Guss23

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    That stinks! I’m getting the feeling this may be a bad ECU!
     
  15. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
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    Have you checked the compression of the cylinders yet?

    you could be off a tooth on timing.
     
  16. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    has nothing to do with compression, in cold condition it is working right
     
  17. Guss23

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    I am getting 0 ohms between pin one and five on the fuel injection ECU at full throttle with key off. The engine is cold. Will that make a difference? I tried both ECU plugs
     
  18. Guss23

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    Sorry, had the multi meter on the wrong setting. Infinite ohms on pins one and five
     
  19. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #119 Steve Magnusson, Jul 2, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
    If at WOT throttle position = not the correct result. One easy thing you might do is unplug/replug the throttle microswitch a few times to wipe the connector contacts and then retest. (Being located above a hot cylinder head is a difficult environment.)

    Engine temperature has no effect on the WOT throttle microswitch operation (or mis-operation).
     
  20. Guss23

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    Looks like Everything to the ECU connectors when it comes to the throttle position sensor works. Now what?
     
  21. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Did you do something to "fix" the WOT microswitch operation, or was it just pilot measurement error (and it's always been OK)?
     
  22. Guss23

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    I had the multi-meter in the wrong setting. Both plugs test good
     
  23. Guss23

    Guss23 Karting
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    I think I am going to change out the water temp switch and thermistor as I have them and the originals are probably the originals. Can a TDC sensor or Tack sensor make a car do this?
    So far I have tested the TPS
    Illuminated all vacuum leaks
    Replaced plugs, wires, extenders, rotor and caps
    Tested the potentiometers
    Check and recheck mixture
    new fuel injectors
    Pressure tested both fuel pimps
    Removed the fuse box circuit board, cleaned and inspected
    checked all vacuum lines
    checked/cleaned all grounds
    unplugged all accessible plugs, cleaned and inspected
    Bypassed/tested the bimetallic switch
    tested/ replaced both o2 sensors

    Possible issues:
    Bad FI ECU
    Bad TDC sensor
    Bad Tack sensor
    Bad ignition ECU

    Any thoughts?
     
  24. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    25,145
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    Bad FI ECU -- Maybe. Diagnosis Sheet N. 6 tests 12 thru 18 would do a lot to show if the injection ECUs are doing the right thing, or not, with the signal going to their EHA for various conditions. However, be very careful. If you accidentally short pin 10 of injection ECU to pin 12 of the injection ECU = blows up the injection ECU. And they mangled things a little because for tests 12 thru 18, you need the protection relay closed, not just key "on".

    Bad TDC sensor -- Unlikely

    Bad Tack sensor -- Unlikely

    Bad ignition ECU -- Unlikely
     
  25. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
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    Your timing could be bad. Off one tooth.
     

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