1988 3.2 Mondial Coupe (Red/Tan)

well said, my friend!!!

 

Be careful about what we wish for. I've been enjoying only paying 'ridiculous' amounts for replacement parts versus 'stupid' territory.

Considering the that they made almost 20,000 units of the various 208/308/328 variants - the Mondial is more than THREE (3) times rarer than their 3x8 brothers. (Including rarer than 348 and 355) 9,000 and 11,000 produced respectively versus 6,000 across all 4 models. Yet I can still find parts at costs where I don't have to take on a second mortgage. Especially surprising since each of our variants only have 1-2K made, depending on the model.

I argue due to the historical stigma - the 'usage/part/burn' rate on the Mondial is much higher than other models - making sorted surviving models that much rarer.

If I had the room and I didn't have an emotional attachment to mine I would be shopping for at least 1 more.

308 GT4 has already been called upstairs, so has the 365/400/412.....

 

Hello. Can I add my two cents worth?
I agree with all of the above.

The poor first impression of the Mondial 8 and "deferred maintenance" or worse, "no papers" are what has kept all Mondi prices down.

I have a red/tan 87 3.2 Coupe and love it. The previous owner says it handles better than his 80s 930 turbo!

I'm partial to the 3.2 coupe: It is the whole package: Ferrari, 3x8 engine, gated shifter, pop-up headlights, round taillights. It's not how fast it goes but how it goes fast - they are fun to drive.

I knew nothing of these cars before I saw and drove one - had always thought the 3x8 were the only Ferrari to get.

Remember the Dino and better than that, remember the GT4 !!! The GT4 prices have tripled. They are the cheapest way into a carbuerated 8. I remember when you could get a good one for $25k, now they are $60k+.

If you have a good example of a QV, 3.2, or t, and it's well maintained, it's only a matter of time.

 

Actually GT4s are selling in the 30s in the USA, regardless of the asking, unless they are concours low mileage cars.

I have recently been looking at Porsche 928s and 944 turbos ... at the risk of infuriating Paul, I think these are both better looking cars than the Mondial, more reliable, better rustproofed, and cheaper to maintain (and buy). The only thing they lack is rarity.

 

I have to agree that the sellers setting the price are discounting the intrinsic value of the car. They are creating a buzz that Mondial's are worth little to no money which is ridiculous. The 3.2 and T listed are both at bargain basement prices and both sellers appear to be non responsive from what I've read. Now the buyers feel that the cars are worth less than their low asking prices. Buyers might feel that these cars are beneath them and seek out a more expensive platform that does the exact same thing, with 2 less seats, and pay double for it because its "cool". That or they are apprehensive to buy a Mondial because they need validation from the rest of the crowd and a desire to fit it.

If a 55k mile QV with an inoperable sunroof and AC needing repair is worth $32,750 plus a 5% buyers premium: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1983-ferrari-mondial/ , a 91 t with 15k miles should be worth a lot more than $30k: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1991-ferrari-mondial.561624/ and an 88 Mondial with 8k miles should be worth a lot more than $32k: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1988-mondial-cabriolet-needs-a-loving-caring-home.561028/

What's going on here? Why haven't these market diluters sold the day they were listed? This makes no sense to me...Granted, I'm biased because I'm selling my Valeo and asking $65k, but the fact of the matter is Burch1 sold his on eBay in 2015 for $75k. Are they now worth half? I had a standing offer when I wasn't selling my car for $75k a little more than a year ago and had I sold it then, I still think it would have been a fair deal for buyer and seller. Something is clearly wrong here. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

 

The big difference is have you seen the conditions of these '30 grand' 308 GT4s?

take a typical 30 grand 308 GT4 and a 30 grand Mondial and you'll know what I'm getting at.

no anger at all. I personally think the 928s and 944s are beautiful, despite what most people think. So we're both in the same camp. Happy to defend your appreciation of the 928 and 944 any day, despite you and I being in the minority.

 

(clapping)

Here is one article (of few during that time) just 5 short years ago where if you peruse the comments they are making fun of any prospective buyer.


Yet just FOUR (4) SHORT years later the same group of folks publishes this on the SAME site:

There was a time when nobody really wanted a Ferrari Dino 308 GT4. Collectors looked down on it because at first, it wasn't badged as a "real" Ferrari. Those people were wrong. The Dino 308 GT4 is amazing.

ONLY a few Years (ON THE SAME WEBSITE) from anybody that buys a 308 GT4 is on 'Crack' to it's Amazing.

Very funny how perceptions can change seemingly overnight.

keep in mind - this may NEVER happen to the Mondial - and that's fine with me. It's just an exposition on how people that don't own these cars...know what they are truly about.

 

Well said...I really can't think of a car more misunderstood than this one. I mean article after article saying these cars are slow, unreliable, fake, horrible handling, and ugly --- what else can the masses cling on to? There is only in the hundreds of them (versus thousands of say 3x8s) in the 50 states of America for any 'real' reference point.

 

BAT QV coupe, lowish miles, resale red, coddled by Dave Helms to the tune of $16K in the last year or so, sold for $31K today. This may be a wild anomaly but if not, Mondial fever has cooled a lot in the last year. So I find myself agreeing with 2cam ... top end is more like 35 for no stories 3.2s and Ts.

 

I was the buyer of the red QV (30,250 + BaT 5%), missed out on the silver Raiders QV (32,750 + BaT 5%), and a couple of 3.2 coupes (one white at high 30, one red mid 30s).
I think it is more about timing too, definitely folks willing to hold on to their 3.2 coupes in good shape knowing there are way fewer of them in the US than the cabs. The two I got in touch with were asking high 40s, I was ready to offer low / mid 40.
Towards end of last year a low mile t coupe went for $45K on BaT, a very high mile, but very taken care of t was sold for $38K
Many more cabs out there in various shapes, 3.2s cabs needing a major are sold at mid to high 20s (one in upstate NY last week, Portland). Ones asking for low to mid 40s (even with low miles and recent service) have been sitting on Autotrader for a long time.

 

In a nutshell, the problem is the cost of fixing the cars is going up a lot faster than the market value, which appears to have turned down in the last 6 months or so. Seems like every other car for sale has "invoices" that amount to 50% or more of the sale price. Invoices used to be good, now I am not so sure as they illuminate the ambush.

 

This is another one of my pet peeves in addition to the low asking price of sellers - what Mondial owners are willing to pay for service. I just recently found the need to replace my spark plug wires. High quality Accel wires cost me a total of $35. Ferrari wanted $500 for the same type of part. No doubt dealer service would have cost me $3,000. Amazingly, many of these parts which Ferrari marks up 500% are Bosch OEM !

If you can't DIY, independents should be able to handle regular service for a reasonable cost.

 

There is no such thing as a 'cheap' vintage Ferrari. This is true. Many people are not prepared for the upkeep on a largely hand built car with say only 350~ examples in their respective countries.

 

lots of cars change hands quietly at different numbers than the public auctions and sales.

These cars are at an age where it is very very difficult to compare based on mileage alone.

The (quite legitimate) option for the initial poster to just drive the car into the ground is one reason these are still selling so low. (not a bad thing for people who want one in terms of price, but a bad thing in terms of deferred maintenance).

Is it bad that at the going rate I'm thinking of grabbing the coupe myself?

 

Having been a Mondial 3.2 Cab owner for about 14 years, and generally followed the market for the cars and classic cars more generally over an even longer period, it appears to me that Mondials have actually gone down in value, not up. I would have thought that the number of good cars would have diminished over the 14 year period, and scarcity would drive the value up for well maintained examples. It appears that there is not much premium for having a really well maintained car. Some low mileage cars seem to get the premium, even though they would be unreliable as drivers without a lot of age related restoration requirements. Considering even 400, GT4 and 308/28 cars have risen in value over the period, the latter most considerably, the Mondial truly looks like the only Ferrari model that has been left behind in the all boats rising phenomena. Maybe the other boats will all fall together as well, but hard to understand why the Mondial is being left out of the cycle.

I observe the t's seem to be holding their value, maybe their market reflects a owner of greater financial means who can accepts the more advanced maintenance requirements, and can pay more for the car in the first instance? 3.2 and earlier cars seem to appeal to the mechanically inclined who enjoy the maintenance hobby, maybe that segment of the market is just by nature more careful with how they spend?

I can't help but think that the scarcity factor for a reliable usable Mondial is real (staring to see it in the stated demand if not yet in price for the rarer 3.2 hardtops), but at the same time the age demographic for classics is starting to shrink the pool of enthusiast buyers and that is keeping prices from rising. The Mondial is the last of the "affordable" hand built Ferrari's, time is being kind to its styling, and its a very fun car to drive. At some point, the model will become recognized as the collectible rolling art that it is.

 

I turned down a couple 40k offers a few years ago and a 50k last year. These were Check in hand offers by collectors. I’m not selling so it didn’t matter.

If I were shopping for any car now I’d go through my mechanic. (Who actually has a gorgeous bbi that I’m pretending to not be tempted by). Mechanics know owners who may have mentioned they would sell. They also know the cars.

 

I have been to the Ferrari factory twice ... they are hand assembled like any other car of the period. Not sure what 'hand built' means, but I didn't see any Italians making body panels on bucks or with a wheel. If you mean no welding robots then perhaps you are right, I don't recall seeing welding robots. Which is why the welds are pretty rudimentary on the cars of this era. I did see Italians beating on camshafts with a hammer to straighten them, and I saw inspection sheets detailing almost a hundred errors on a 348 coming off the line ....

 

Values definitely ticked up a couple of years ago and crested about a year ago. When the market softens, the marginal cars melt.

 

Yeah, in terms of market te sweet spot for Mondial's right now seems to be the QV. Both buyers and sellers seem to agree that mid 30's is right for a decent car. 8's are undervalued by both groups. As for 3.2's and t's, sellers seem to feel they're worth a bit more than buyers are willing to pay at the moment.
Tangent- we're in the midst of a consistent turnaround on these cars in the proletariat/keyboard jockey media who don't really know the cars at all, but who influence public opinion and thus affect pricing in general. The "barely a Ferrari/ugly Ferrari" mantra of yesterday is being regularly replaced by "accessible vintage/cool looking car/I'd take one of these" commentary of today. Look at the comments on any recent BaT auction. Generally very positive. This is step 1 to price inflation, IMO. Buy 'em now gentlemen.

 

I may be incorrect, but I believe the Mondial bodies were made in the Scaglietti plant across the street from the main Ferrari factory. Owned by Fiat/Ferrari at that time but still managed by Scaglietti himself. Last of the relatively low volume body on frame vehicles, the factory retooled for higher volumes with variations of a unibody construction thereafter (eg. 348, 355 etc.) using fully modern production processes, robot welders and other automation. The Mondial is not from the panel beating era, but eg. the hood and engine lids were bespoke fabricated items, as were other parts of the car, including the welding of the tubular frame. Of course there were elements of mass production, but the Mondial is the last of the cars to come out from the original factory capabilities, which did include many low volume production hand made parts, including from some very small local suppliers which could no longer serve the higher volume subsequent production.

 

well said Dave! I was surprised to see only one 'neutral' comment on the BAT auction page. The rest were all positive, this is a big change from even just last year (2016) were you had at least 3-4 trolls that spout of the usual critiques: "Mondial is slow, it's a Fiero, you'll need to visit the mechanic every week, etc" . - I know the guy that made the 'neutral' comment. He said the Mondial is not respected at our events (he also said his 348 'barely' gets respect). I have never seen any disrespect for his 348). I have been a FOG member for 4 years and I have not got a single ounce of disrespect - in fact, I've made friends there that I am blessed to know many fine men and women from all walks of life. I have been welcomed wholeheartedly and the club founder has always made me feel at home. There is no "special" section for cars. We all park first come first serve. There is no such thing as the GT4/400/Mondial section for goodness sakes. Interesting he would perpetuate that notion with him being in the community, but also sadly - not a surprise. It takes some time to undo years of misinformation (the same I argue that affected the 348.) Quite frankly if FOG were a place where participation was based on how deep one's pockets are, it would be a club I gladly would leave. It is exactly because of the welcoming nature and atmosphere that I enjoy it so. The only litmus test to join FOG is a shared love of the Prancing Horse.

 

Well put moysiuan!!

Russ:
When replacing my speakers and pulling out some interior bits, I saw pencil marks where the leather is supposed to line up. Tags with "Inspected By" in Italian, trim pieces obviously cut not by a machine (nonsymmetrical trim lines), and screw points that obviously sorted of just 'eyeballed'

Not saying this is a good thing for reliability, I'm sure a robot would do a better job (and more reliable to boot! - just ask the Japanese) - the point of my mentioning these are largely 'hand-made' were to drive home the fact they are low volume - not that 'Fredo' is necessarily Michael Angelo, but it harkens back to a time when having him do it is cheaper than buying the RoboTron3000 to do it 100,000 times (ala Porsche) - that in itself would be unsustainable today, and yet another reason these cars have true character. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

That's my understanding of where Mondial's , 308's etc fit into the transformation of production methods...but I'm basing it on articles and books from the period that described the production process.

 

Thanks Paul!

The overall trend on the Mondial in general seems to be pretty stable and (in some cases) climbing. Even the t, which has seen the largest "correction" in the last year, based on the fact that they were hitting pretty high numbers for a while there, is holding fairly steady. Compare to the Daytona, the 365GT, or the 365 GTC/4. Last year those cars were asking about 750-850k, 300k, 350k for decent examples, respectively. Cherry Daytona's were up over a million. That's over, for now at least. Now we're seeing those same cars (sometimes literally) going for 600-650k, 220k, 250k respectively. So while the numbers are lower across the board, the Mondial is actually holding steadier in relation to those drops, or even continuing to edge up right now in the case of the QV. I think the Mondial is even holding steadier than the 308 GTB/GTS, simply due to a lower peak/point of entry price than those cars a while back.

I think right now the QV appeals most because it offers the performance bump with the early vintage styling, which makes sense on paper. But I can see the 8 becoming a must have car as well because it's the first of the line, in the way early Porsche 912's have gone bonkers. I bought a QV because I like the spec of the car but I'd have been just as happy with an 8. And the later cars will always have fans due to the more impressive stats and some like the styling better. Everyone gets their 15 minutes!!

Anyway, they're all cool cars. People are catching on. No big surprise. I find the money stuff interesting as a partial indicator of how tastes evolve related to time and accessibilty, because I'm interested in that sort of thing, but at the end of the day I don't really care personally as an owner or a fan of the model. While I do take some pleasure in being able to say "I knew they were cool way back when" ultimately the cars themselves are awesome and that's all that matters. Forza baby.