1989 328 GTS ABS steering binding | FerrariChat

1989 328 GTS ABS steering binding

Discussion in '308/328' started by rlrskdr, Feb 14, 2011.

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  1. rlrskdr

    rlrskdr Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
    8
    Monterey, California
    Hey folks, help me keep what little hair I have left. I have a 1989 328 GTS ABS car in which the steering binds at 180 degree intervals when turning the steering wheel. The rack has been removed and replaced along with a variety of different steering universals. Nothing seems to help. Any suggestions? Guy
     
  2. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,380
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Hmmmmm...you have fixed the only two components normally suspected....bent shaft possible???
     
  3. rlrskdr

    rlrskdr Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
    8
    Monterey, California
    Nothing is bent, dinged, broken. The vehicle has never been crashed. Everything is right where it belongs. I have been working on these cars and owning these cars since 1975 and have never seen one do this.
     
  4. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
    BANNED Professional Ferrari Technician

    Apr 26, 2006
    3,664
    New England
    Full Name:
    David Feinberg
    That's the clue...and the solution will be found when you drop the shaft u-joints and inspect them. There are two possibilities: One or both or the u-joint is seizing, or the u-joints angles are not aligned properly (to one another) on the steering shaft. The first problem is more common, the second less common....unless some yahoo pulled one of the u-joints in the past due to a problem and re-installed it out of phase with the other joint.

    David

    [email protected]
     
  5. viper_driver

    viper_driver Formula Junior

    Jan 1, 2009
    978
    Vegas
    Full Name:
    Jason
    When I was having my car repainted I had the dash out and drove it to the paint shop with the steering wheen tilt adjustment bolts loosened. I found that at one extreme end of adjustment (can't remember if it was up or down), the column joints bound on a piece of metal supporting the dash.

    It was scary, I couldn't steer! But, really easy to diagnose when I looked under there and saw the two parts hitting.

    Probably not your problem, but who knows.
     
  6. tomberlin

    tomberlin Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 9, 2005
    849
    Bethesda
    Full Name:
    tom berlin
    I don't know if your car would have the same configuration as my '78 GTs, but when I had the spare tire surround out recently there was a cover, that when removed, gave access to the steering shaft from above. It would make working on it much easier.

    TomB
     
  7. javadog

    javadog Karting

    Dec 27, 2009
    121
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Jeff Roberts
    Is it binding, or is the effort required to turn the wheel just varying a little as it is rotated. If it is the latter, that is normal, due to the design of the joints that Ferrari used. Having these joints "in phase" and "out of phase" makes a difference. If you Google universal joints, you can learn about the effect.

    If it is binding, try lowering the steering wheel position using the adjustment that is available, to reduce the angle of the joints. Perhaps the joints do not have enough angularity available. Are they exactly the same parts as original, or are they a different brand?

    JR
     
  8. rlrskdr

    rlrskdr Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
    8
    Monterey, California
    Hello JR, I am a professional mechanic and have been working on Ferrari's most of my life. As I said in my original statement, the rack and the joints have been changed out many times with other factory Ferrari parts. The joints have been installed in every phase possible. The steering wheel has been moved up and down in every possible angle they can be moved in. Nothing helps. This vehicle is undriveable as it has an extreme amount of binding . I know that most all 308-328-Mondial cars have some variance in the steering effort, but this is extreme. I am beginning to wonder if someone has changed out the steering wheel components. This is a late model ABS car and I don't have another one handy to compare it to as they are rare. Thanks for you help. Guy
     
  9. flyngti

    flyngti Formula 3

    Jul 16, 2009
    1,246
    Snohomish, WA
    Full Name:
    Eric L
    Perhaps a dumb question, but have you tried slowly turning the wheel with the front end off the ground on jackstands? How about disconnecting the u-joint at the rack and determining if the binding is in the steering column or the rack? Often time, it helps to test one piece at a time. With the joint disconnected, you can move the rack by turning the front wheel by hand to check for binding at the rack or tie rods. Likewise, with the joint disconnected, you can turn the steering wheel by hand to check for binding in the column. If both are smooth, the problem is in the joint or the alignment.
     
  10. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,871
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    I have noticed that the angle of the steering u-joint at the firewall on my '89 328 is really extreme. Just by observation, I'd call it a questionable application of the angle a U joint can deal with. If a conventional u joint is angled just beyond its design limit, it binds every 1/2 turn or thereabouts so it seems to me a logical place to look - I'd bet that since these cars were more hand-made than machine made, there could be enough variation in the placement/alignment to cause some cars to have the problem you are experiencing.

    But in any case, let us know what it was.
     
  11. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,345
    Good article on multiple universal joints used in steering:
    http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/scrp_0603_steering_shaft_installation/index.html

    Note the warning about joint phasing or indexing.
    "Anytime the project concerns assembling U-joints to a shaft, you must correctly index them. This means the yokes should be in the same position on each end of the shaft..." This could easily have gotten misaligned at some point and ignored thereafter.

    If this were my problem, I'd disconnect sections starting at the rack to find exactly where the binding happens.
     
  12. rlrskdr

    rlrskdr Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
    8
    Monterey, California
    I agree with you, Mike, that the angle of the lower universal is extreme. I am pretty sure that is my issue here, as the binding goes completely away upon disconnection of the lower joint. Is your car an ABS car? Do you have any binding issues with it? Could I talk you into taking a few snapshots and emailing them to me? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Guy
     
  13. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,871
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    Unfortunately, the car and I are nearly 3000 miles apart for the winter. It lives in MD; I live in Mexico City and I won't be there until late April. So I can't take any pics and I don't have any pics on the computer of that Ujoint. The car is an ABS car. I don't notice any particular binding as I turn the wheel though the steering itself is quite stiff - normal from what folks say but seems a bit heavy to me compared to other manual steering cars I have owned, including several a lot heavier than this car.
     
  14. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,345
    Have you verified that the lower and upper joints are absolutely completely identically phased together on the shaft? A thousand other cars have the same angles and don't bind every 180. But other cars aren't 1 spline off rotation between U-Joints.
     
  15. rlrskdr

    rlrskdr Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
    8
    Monterey, California
    Please note..out of phase u joints are NOT the problem with this vehicle. thanks
     
  16. Tostapchuk

    Tostapchuk Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2004
    278
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    TJO
    What was the verdict?
     

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