1992 348ts Intermitten idle problems | FerrariChat
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1992 348ts Intermitten idle problems

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Furbrari, Aug 6, 2004.

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  1. Furbrari

    Furbrari Rookie

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    #1 Furbrari, Aug 6, 2004
    Had the car for 2 weeks which was running fine, but after a really hot day I had problems with the idle. It kept stalling! However if you kept the revs up it was fine but no idle control. There were no slow down lights up and both are on before starting the engine so they do work. It has happened again but it wasn't a hot day so I can't put it down to the weather, anyone got any ideas or had similar problems? I am new to the Ferrari scene as this is my first one. The car has only done 23,000 miles and everything on it is standard. The car can have this problem either from cold or sometimes when i've been out and it's been running fine.
     
  2. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
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    #2 348SStb, Aug 6, 2004
    Any "Check Engine" lights?

    Could be your throttle positioning sensor(s); there is one for each of the two banks of cylinders. In the Workshop Manual the part is called the "throttle potentiometer."
     
  3. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    #3 Miltonian, Aug 6, 2004
    Hi there, Mr. Furbrari, welcome to FerrariChat, and congratulations on your new 348!

    To save you the trouble of going through the archives here, perhaps the first thing you should try (if the car seems to be running well otherwise) is to "re-initialize" the electronics. This is an easy procedure and often can solve a problem similar to yours. This is particularly true if the battery has been run down or disconnected.

    1) Disconnect one of the battery terminals and leave it unhooked for about 10 minutes.

    2) Reattach the terminal.

    3) Start the engine WITHOUT TOUCHING THE GAS PEDAL and let it idle for about 10 minutes.

    4) Shut off the engine, then restart and drive as normal.

    If this does not have an effect on your idle problem, then you can move on to other tests, such as downloading the stored fault codes in the ECU's. Keep us posted.
     
  4. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
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    #4 348SStb, Aug 6, 2004
    Yes, good idea Miltonian. Actually, Furbrari, you can just "switch" off the battery with the switch located in the front left of the car. Just open the hood and remove the panel there on the driver's side and there should be a round black switch that indicates the direction to which you need to turn the dial in order to shut the battery off.

    Make sure that all electronics in the car are off and not being used while doing the reset of the ECUs that Miltonian recommended. That means keep the air conditioning off, headlights, etc while the engine is running for those 10 minutes.

    Do you have a battery tender for the car? If not, see about getting one. You should keep your car trickle-charging every night. I do! It is highly recommended for Ferraris... a not fully charged battery can cause a host of problems.
     
  5. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    #5 Miltonian, Aug 6, 2004
    Good advice from Dave. I forgot about the '92 model having its battery in the front where it isn't easy to unhook a terminal. Older ones like mine have the battery in back. If you are a new owner, are you familiar with where your battery is located? It's hidden!
     
  6. Furbrari

    Furbrari Rookie

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    #6 Furbrari, Aug 6, 2004
    Thanks for the advice, I made a bit of a mistake though. The car is a 1991. The first one I looked at was a 92 and noticed the battery position as you mentioned. Just got confused, sorry. Does it still have a switch under the hood for the battery? There is no check engine light that comes on when I have the strange idle though. When I went to pick the car up the battery was dead and the garage changed it for me. They apparently reset the ECU by starting it and leaving it alone, however would opening the doors make any difference given the small lights that come on? How do you go about downloading the ECU codes? Is this a special equipment job? I'll try your suggestions tomorrow when I get it out of the garage and let you know how it goes. Thanks for the really quick replies.
     
  7. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    #7 Miltonian, Aug 6, 2004
    If the battery was just changed, then it's quite possible that your problem will be cured just by re-initializing. At least it's the first thing to try. It's very important that you do not press the throttle during startup or idle during this procedure. Of course, if there is another problem, it won't want to idle and this won't help. Won't hurt either.

    If your battery is in the back engine compartment, you have to disconnect a cable. No switch/knob in front in that case. Not sure when they switched from rear to front.

    Downloading ECU codes is not difficult, and requires no special tools. The procedure is in the archives here. Of course, that isn't a CURE, it's a diagnostic procedure.

    It's possible that you have a vacuum leak, or other mechanical problem, but try the re-initializing first. It's quick and easy.

    Anybody else have suggestions?
     
  8. jkuk

    jkuk Formula Junior

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    #8 jkuk, Aug 6, 2004
    Furbrari,

    As others have mentioned - disconnect power and then we'll go from there.

    This is a great site with many only too willing to help - especially the 348 contingency.


    Confidence will grow as you get to know the car.

    Good Luck


    John
     
  9. davey_jones

    davey_jones Formula Junior

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    #9 davey_jones, Aug 6, 2004
    Miltonian - in your statement above, what is the purpose of # 4 ???

    Is this a necessary step? I've always thought you could let idle for 10-15 minutes then go on your way.. not turn off then restart..?

    Dave
    indy
     
  10. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    #10 Miltonian, Aug 6, 2004
    #4 - "Is this a necessary step?" - I don't know, it's just the way I was told to do it. The way I figure it, turning off the ignition marks the end of the re-initializing process. Once you restart, the ECU will be functioning with the baseline parameters. Less chance to incorporate a glitch. I'm open to other opinions, expert or otherwise.
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #11 Rifledriver, Aug 6, 2004
    At Ferrari school we were never told to turn them back off, but then they told us a lot of things that weren't true. Way I see it, it can't hurt and only takes a couple of seconds.
     
  12. ILuv4Res

    ILuv4Res F1 Veteran
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    #12 ILuv4Res, Aug 6, 2004
    The manual indicates that you should NOT press the gas pedal when starting. Apparently, the car adjusts something upon startup. If you press the gas pedal, it doesn't adjust properly. (I forget what it is).

    Other than the bad idle issue, does everything else function properly & drive ok? If so, try the reset suggestion & get back to us with an update!
     
  13. davey_jones

    davey_jones Formula Junior

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    #13 davey_jones, Aug 7, 2004

    "end of initializing process" that almost makes sense....
     
  14. maserati424

    maserati424 Rookie

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    #14 maserati424, Aug 8, 2004
    Try first the reset procedure.
    Got your A/c on ?
    Sometimes its the first sign of a gone A/C comp because at idle speed it take very much power and the engine stalls.
     
  15. Furbrari

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    #15 Furbrari, Aug 8, 2004
    Hi to all, Tried the reset by dis-connecting the battery for about 20 mins then starting the car and leaving it for a further 10. The car was fine when started up for the reset but as soon as I tried to pull away the revs dipped and nearly stalled. Didn't have the air-con on though. The car stalled a further few times as I'm coming up to a set of lights to stop and pushing the clutch in. I've tried slowing right down in gear to about 1000 rpm and then putting the clutch in and it doesn't stall (Still not perfect though). It happens when the clutch is put in from higher revs. Tried it in third when moving at about 40 MPH and clutching it, and the car stalls. have tried it with the air-con on as well to see if the extra power needed keeps the revs up but no joy. Thing is, it's not all the time. Any suggestions? do I need to download the ECU codes to get a better idea or are there any more things to try first? Also have really sqeeky brakes. Is this normal or is there a remedy?
     
  16. Michael B

    Michael B F1 Rookie
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    #16 Michael B, Aug 8, 2004
    Just taking a shot here...

    TPS = Throttle position sensor.

    Could be your coolant temp sensors. They are located under the intake, and are a real treat to change. Semi inexpensive though (standard Bosch item # 02801300266-ooo).

    Maybe 02 sensors

    Perhaps crank position sensors

    Lastly: MAF = Mass Air Flow sensors

    Checking codes will get you closer. Please - Please, write back & tell us what solved the issue.

    Oh, and yes... Brakes will squeal. You can add "anti-squeal" to the back side of the pads to help reduce that easily though.
     
  17. Furbrari

    Furbrari Rookie

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    #17 Furbrari, Aug 8, 2004
    Can anybody shed any light on how I go about getting the codes? I haven't got a clue! Can the air flow sensors sometimes get blockages from debris going down the air intakes? Isn't the filter next in line before the sensors? I'll be sure to keep you posted each time I try something new and if I solve the problem, cheers.
     
  18. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    #18 Ricambi America, Aug 8, 2004
  19. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #19 ernie, Aug 9, 2004
    Have a look at your vacume lines. You will need to remove the air box to see them all. If you are getting the problem at first start up it could be the vacume tube/s going to the secondary air injection valve/s. The secondary injection valves are located just above the headers. If you look on the bottom front of the air box you will see the air tube to that runs to the air injection valve, just under the tube going to the mass airflow sensors. The valve will have a nipple on one side that the vacume tube should be hook to. After you have checked those, make your way through the other vacume lines, to check for disconnected or leaking hoses. There are also some vacume lines on the front and back of the intake plenum, and one under the plenum hooked up to the intake equalization valve. A broken, leaking, or disconnected vacume line can cause the symtoms you are describing.
     
  20. BeachBum

    BeachBum Formula 3

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    #20 BeachBum, Aug 9, 2004
    a battery maintainer is a must, plug the it in when the car sits overnight, its not a necessity it just everything seems to work better with the battery topped off

    your gona love the car, welcome to our addiction
     
  21. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 fatbillybob, Aug 9, 2004
    <<Had the car for 2 weeks which was running fine, but after a really hot day I had problems with the idle.>>

    There is probably nothing wrong with your car. The key was a really hot day. Your problem is an electrical connection made worse by a hot days expansion and contraction or crappy connectors. Start by removing and using contact cleaner on the 2 TPS and 2 MAF sensors by spraying out the connectors and letting dry disconnected for a couple hours. Also take the exhaust ecus out of the loop by disconnecting for the purpose of testing the system by disconnecting at the connector on the right and left shock towers. Dosconnect and spray out the 2 ECU connectors and 2 white connectors inside the ECU area behind your seats. After you have done that report back if you still have an idle problem.
     
  22. Furbrari

    Furbrari Rookie

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    #22 Furbrari, Aug 15, 2004
    Well, I think it's sorted as i've used the car about 5 times now and not a hint of stalling. The problem was one of the spark plug leads from the distribution board on bank 5-8. On checking the leads and connections I found one to be all green instead of copper coloured so that was obviously a bad connection. When I moved the right angle plug for further inspection the lead just fell out. Same again it was all green. I had began to learn to drive the car by slowing down in gear till 1000 rpm then clutching it, and doing it this way it didn't stall. I was thinking there must have been more than just one cylinder not working to cause it to stall so I wasn't optimistic. Saying that, I did use maintenance spray to make sure of no moisture on all connections and disconnected the air box and meters to check for debris but found nothing. any other connections I found I just disconnected, wiped, sprayed and put back. I cleaned all connections on the spark plug lead and made sure it made a definate clipping noise from the lead to the right angle plug when pushed back in. Anyway the car is running fine now but thanks very much for all your help and suggestions. Cheers !
     
  23. zipperkarting

    zipperkarting Formula Junior
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    #23 zipperkarting, Nov 2, 2014
    Hi everyone,
    A very simple question for someone to answer please. The engine bay in the 360 that I have just bought is filthy. What is the best and safest way to clean it all up as I am conscious of all sorts of electrical stuff that might not like water. I do have access to an air line.
    Thank you.
     

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