1998 550 Maranello "sorting" thread--DIY | Page 19 | FerrariChat

1998 550 Maranello "sorting" thread--DIY

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by moorfan, Aug 15, 2011.

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  1. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Rookie

    Apr 22, 2007
    25
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Hart
    There are two issues that I've had to face on my car that I do not see mentioned here.

    The first is the compromise between ride height and rear camber. I would like to go just a bit lower on the rear but ended up setting the most negative camber I could tolerate then adjusting the front to achieve a reasonable rake. Are there any options out there to improved camber gain on the rear?

    The second issue is grinding off the radiator drain plug. Has anyone found an option other than the stock Ferrari plug?

    Thanks
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,989
    socal
    I don't understand either of your questions. But regarding alignment you should set the rideheight you want first realizing you should be setting it on performance not "Look" with aftermarket tires/wheels. Then you should set the caster,camber,toe,thrust accordingly. Within the manufacturer's RH range there should be plenty of adjustment for the camber range. If you are way outside this then I suspect your RH is not optimum for the car and you might have created other issues like bumpsteer. You need to look at compromises as a package. So what are you trying to achieve and maybe we could help?
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,164
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    On late model Ferraris, you have about 15-20 mm of ride height adjustment you can use for lowering the car and still be able to use the recommended camber settings. Lower than that and the shocks are out of their optimum range.

    If you adjust camber out of the recommended range by very much, tire life will be seriously compromised, so unless you are using the car as a race car, the recommended settings should work fine.

    Like FBB said, when you do a four wheel alignment, ride height, camber and toe-in are juggled to get as close to the correct numbers as you can, so I am not sure what you are chasing.

    My car has FHP suspension and 12.5" rear wheels, and the recommended settings work fine. Unfortunately, I do not have the recommended FHP settings for the 550, but I am sure someone does.
     
  4. andrewkirkby

    andrewkirkby Karting

    Jan 9, 2010
    51
    Sydney, Australia
    Full Name:
    Andrew...... Kirkby
    moorfan - this is one of the best threads i have ever read. Period.

    Your attention to detail, methodical approach and willingness to do things properly is inspiring and no doubt helpful to vast quantities of people who might otherwise reconsider such undertakings on their cars.

    I think i've read the entire thing about 4 times and each time i pick up something new. This will definitely be a huge help in the future :D


    thanks again,

    AK
     
  5. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #455 moorfan, Mar 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Andrew...thanks so much!

    I finally completed the interior on the Maranello. There were numerous things to do...install OEM stereo with amp and 4 speakers, replace all sound deadening and replace all carpeting with a change to black from tan carpet. Reglue airbag leather. Remove and reinstall dash binnacle after cleaning and stereo install. Clean and protect all leather pieces. Replace OEM Ferrari seats with seats that I can actually fit in.

    I can't show you the OEM radio setup because the OEM radio that I bought from the Ebay based specialized recycling company arrived non-functional. So, in its place, a more modern Pioneer.

    I finally got it all back together yesterday and went for a drive. It is quieter than before, definitely. The seats are Recaro Expert M with the Recaro emblem dyed saddle to match the leather in the car. It's really sharp in person. These seats are absolutely fabulous to sit in and fit me perfectly. I mounted them on the original Ferrari motorized rails from the OEM seats, so the power front and back is preserved but they are lighter than OEM by about 10lbs each.

    During the drive, it misted a little outside and when I hit the wipers, the drivers wiper got caught in the passenger wiper and jammed. Stupid italian car. Next project, I guess :)
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  6. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #456 moorfan, Mar 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. Elsi

    Elsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2010
    1,646
    Zürich (Switzerland)
    Full Name:
    Markus
    Wow, beautiful!

    Markus
     
  8. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,535
    Hong Kong, Tokyo
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    It looks fantastic! Thanks to your pictorial on how to remove the rear interior trim bits, I managed to get at my rear speakers. The foam surround on my OEM rear speakers disintegrated to bits. May I ask what speakers you used on your car?
     
  9. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    I used Polks. I wanted to make sure that I didn't cut the interior fiberglass bits in any way. You want my old rear speakers? They aren't disintegrated (yet) :)
     
  10. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,535
    Hong Kong, Tokyo
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    Thanks for your very generous offer, but the OEM speakers are really lacking in sound quality even when new. Very reassuring to hear you are using Polk Audio as replacements, as I have ordered their DB401 4" for front and DB571 5"x7" for the rear. I wasn't sure if I had to cut or modify the OEM trim pieces to fit the new speakers. Now I can't wait to get these Polk speakers to upgrade the sound while maintaining the OEM stealth look.

    Thanks again for your great picture posts.
     
  11. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    608
    Middletown, NJ
    That looks awesome.

    Your old 360 is up on my lift right now for its yearly fluids. Changing the exhaust again, from Tubi-Hyperflow-STOCK, to Tubi-Kinetix-Tubi. I think my daughter can handle a little more noise now. :)
     
  12. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Mike! Good to hear from you! Glad the 360 is doing well!
    I'm having all sorts of exhaust issues with my car, not real issues but I can't seem to find the right combination of exhaust that I LIKE. :)

    I wish the 550 could sound like a 512TR, or even a Murcielago. :) :) Let me know how the Kinetix thing turns out.
     
  13. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    To have a 550 sound like a 512TR will be next to impossible as the produced sound from the engine is different. The engine angle of 65' will have something to do with it as well.
    You may want to employ a sound engineer - some companies can make very special things these days and tune an exhaust to the sound you like, high-pitched, rumbling, etc. Or give the guys from Kreissieg a call:
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CrsPEAXjIs[/ame]
     
  14. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
    Anyone know what exhaust setup this is?

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR0noDFgGAQ[/ame]
     
  15. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #465 moorfan, Mar 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,989
    socal
    Any particular reason for the recaro seats vs. OEM?
     
  17. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Yes. Several.
    Number 1. The factory seats are uncomfortable to me. They are also made by Recaro, but are clearly designed for a little italian man and not for a big man (or fatbillybob for that matter :))
    Number 2. They are a little less aggressive in the thigh bolster area, which makes getting in and out a lot easier.
    Number 3. They are not tan, and therefore don't get dyed by whatever I wear. They are also not aniline leather so therefore I don't have to constantly worry about whether I am stretching and abrading the fine leather with my ass. I will put the factory seats back when I sell and they will have very limited wear.
     
  18. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #468 moorfan, Mar 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I've now put about 200miles on the Maranello since the "second" major. I decided to again take down the timing covers and get a look at the tensioner bearings and belt tension.

    No grease splatter or belt debris on the inside of the covers. Photo 1 shows the 1-6 bearing. Bearing 7-12 looks similar. Nowhere near the same problem I had with the first set of bearings.

    The only problem I now have is that all of the belts are looser than they were. Long segment of timing belt 1-6 is 80Hz, and its short segment is 147 Hz. The long segment of belt 7-12 is looser than that. 7-12 is hard to measure with the timing cover still loosely in place (water pump belt needs to be removed to get it off) Tensioner bolts still look fine to the point that the offset of the bearing relative to the bolt appears the same. Mind you this is only one measurement and I have no idea how much asymmetric load there is on the belt.

    Alternator belt tension is about 117 Hz, and the water pump belt is around 100Hz.

    Car is running very nicely. I have done quite a bit of hard driving in this 200 miles, lots of hard use of those timing belts.

    Any opinions on what to do next? My instinct is to NOT attempt to re-tension the timing belts and just button it up and enjoy. Either that or sell this and buy a car with a frikking timing chain.
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  19. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
    3,420
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Bill Karp
    "just button it up and enjoy"

    You earned it !

    cheers,

    Bill
     
  20. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    Pete, any more thoughts on the root cause of the bearing problems last time?
     
  21. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
    I always understood that these engines have a "dymanic tensioner", could someone explain how the tensioner works and why it does not automatically compensate any slack in the belt?
     
  22. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete

    Two things. The tension on the belt applied by the spring alone is not nearly enough. You must rotate the engine over and tighten the tensioner bearing bolt simultaneously to get the tension on the belt to the correct degree. Secondly, when the install is completed, both sides of the spring are bolted down to the block (tensioner body bolts on one side and tensioner bearing on the other side). Therefore, the spring is irrelevant at that point. Not really sure why it's even in there. Maybe some of the other members of the board can explain that to me.
     
  23. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
    809
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Pete
    John, I'm left with bearing overfill and quality control problems as my explanation. Don't know what else to say. I installed these exactly the same way.
     
  24. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
    I see, this is the origin of my confusion.

    I pose the same question as you, what is the point of having springs then if they are blocked by the bolts?

    Could a "true" auto-tensioner be made for this application?


     
  25. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,164
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Pete- The springs are there to provide an initial tension somewhere close to what you will finally set. On the 308s, some owners use that spring to set tension with no other input. The better pros like Brian Crall and Dave Helms have accoustic tensiometer settings for all the cars with rubber timing belts, generated the hard way through multiple belt jobs, some initially using a Staeger or other tensioning method. Needless to say, these tensiometer settings are trade secrets and not advertised.

    I would not retension the belts. Nowhere in the literature is there a tension check on used belts. They are only visually checked for oil, tears, etc.

    Your bad tensioner bearings/pulleys caused Daniel at Ricambi to completely change how he procures those bearings. Your originals came from Ferrari and the seals appeared to be improperly installed or the bearing overfilled. Daniel now gets his bearings from Hill Engineering, who inspect every bearing they get directly from SKF. That alone would have made your thread a big boon to Ferrari owners, not even counting all the other great image by image documentation you did.
     

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