1999 355 F1, need advice

Saying that there are more things that can potentially go wrong isn't the same than saying there are more things actually and currently going wrong.

Last March I bought a 1988 3.2 Mondial. It has Air Con and ABS, an upgrade in regard to the 3.0 Quattrovalvole. Two more things to go wrong which never did. And I don't see people debating the virtues of sweating in the sun vs. keeping your shirt dry in the summertime "ad nauseum".

Of course a 2014 Ford Transit for instance has more technology and more things that can fail than the original 1965 model. So? Lets all go back to rolling down the windows with your hands because that's what true racers do, or hit our heads in the steering wheel because airbags are expensive if they fail, and therefore the 1965 Transit is a superior van?

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

At least as far as I am concerned, I don't believe I have indicated either way which transmission, in my opinion is "superior" to the other. I think that is something the OP has to decide. My feeling is that there are benefits and disadvantages to each.

But, as I understand it, the F1 transmission in these cars was in its infancy when the F355 came out. In fact, I believe it was one of the first production cars to offer it as an option. I think that we can agree, new forms of technology sometimes go through what we call, "growing pains" until they are perfected. That is, the developers can't possibly anticipate all of the potential problems associated with the technology until the "rubber hits the road", and it is through a process of trial and error that bugs are worked out and problems associated with the technology are solved.

Furthermore, it is a fact that the manual transmission has existed for a little bit longer than the F1 style transmission (i.e. the components that make it shift), so it follows that there would be less problems with the established tried and tested manual transmission. That is just plain logic.

Would it be safe to conclude that the incidence of problems associated with the F1 transmission outweigh those associated with the manual? Logic would dictate that the potential for problems is higher with respect to the F1 transmission. Are there actually a greater number of incidents associated with the F1 transmission over the manual? That is a question we will never, and I must emphasize, never, know the answer to. Does that make the question not worth asking? No. Does that make a discussion regarding the two fruitless and not worthy of discussion? No. The OP wanted people's thoughts on the issue, and that is what has been provided. Nothing more, and nothing less. Ultimately, the OP can develop their own opinion on the subject. Is the F1 transmission a step forward in the evolution of changing the gears? In some ways yes, and in some ways no. Yes, in that gear changes are accomplished more easily and quicker than you can possibly ever dream of shifting a manual transmission. However, I think there also might be a loss of "connection" with the car that results from simply pulling a lever vs. all of the things that happen when you shift a manual transmission. This issue is, again, debateable.

Lastly, when we are discussing a Ferrari, and the potential for the failure of a particular system on the vehicle, I think the OP's main concern is exposure to detrimental financial consequences. And, the real question they are asking is, am I opening myself up to greater financial hardship and a higher cost of owning if I purchase an F355 with a F1 transmission? I think some people will have the view that this is one of those situations where, as the saying goes, "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it". Others, such as myself, view it is a legitimate concern, and something worthy of inquiry when making a purchase of this magnitude.

 

While the F1 system is a bit more complicated I don't believe it has a bad reputation at all on these cars.

Since you have to replace the valve guides and headers between each oil change anyway, F1 pump isn't a big deal Buy the one you want.

 

And fwiw, given the choice I will always take gated as I just love everything about a 3 pedal car but the F1 setup is pretty neat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDEeoYwt3Qc

 

Meh. Not surprising. The F1 system has more parts...and more parts to fail. More threads make sense.

By a 6 speed if you can't handle the F1 system.

Simple

 

I entirely subscribe your point of view, Lee. The general appraisal and examples I put forward weren't aimed at any of your posts, my sincere apologies if I didn't let that absolutely clear. It's a pleasure debating with someone like you and I completely respect your posture and your knowledge.

I also agree with Watson: don't like the F1? Fine, don't buy it. Just don't bash it either, based on your personal preference and/or hearsay. Like Frank so correctly stated on the previous page, doesn't bring anything to the table.

Kindest regards,

Nuno.

 

No worries AlfisaPortoghese. I find it interesting how "passionate" people are about this issue don't you? I mean, what we are talking about here is a transmission!!!! Hahaha.... I chuckle a little to myself because I would be embarrassed to share with my colleagues the amount of time and energy "gear heads" or "petrol heads" such as myself, spend discussing a part on a car: kinda funny when you think about it, right? Ah, to have the problems we have, so much of the world would be grateful. Cheers.

 

As a 99 355F1 owner I went through the same decision process. In my experience and the experience of more than a few owners the F1 system works, until it doesn't. Mine was great until a few warning signs turned into a total shutout in very short order. Right now it is disassembled and I have two boxes of parts from Ricambi waiting on me to get some free time. Like any project there are frozen bolts, stuck bits that are supposed to pop right out, and the usual circus.

The problems:

*There isn't allot of documentation of people who have worked on theirs. I have a running thread and am updating it as I do the overhaul.

*The dealers and even more so the independent shops are very guarded about the details and speak in generalities if they talk about the system.

*The manual is very detailed on the things that are very unlikely to fail but for things that are more likely to fail and are now parts not available, it has helpful data like "do not disassemble further"

*And number one, there is no readily available reasonably priced service computer for the owner like there is for every other car on the planet.

If you choose F1 you have to accept that at some point it may just fail on you. And that it won't be the same rapid easy fix as if it were a manual. And you will be tied to external resources unlike with the manual. I accepted this going in and now I am dealing with what I read about over and over. You may well be doing the same thing at some point.
I will get through it, and after overhauling all the mechanical bits I will still have to haul it to a shop with an SD2/3 to properly calibrate it. If and hopefully when a service computer solution is available I will be first in line. I don't regret going F1 and of course I am annoyed that I was one of the lucky ones but as I said I accepted that going in. But having driven both the manual and F1 the F1 totally makes the car, it is like the STi Vs a WRX to put it in terms the OP will relate to.

 

I don't have a Ferrari. But our Maserati CC Coupe has went through 2 F1 pumps in 10k miles.


It's a great car. Fun to drive. I imagine a 355 F1 would be only more so. But it's clear to me that when you have the F1, your exposure for expensive repairs increases.

 

I summarized my experience with the many F355 I have touched with the statement that one should buy a 6 speed. Not at a higher price or lower price, just that a 6 speed manual gear box has many fewer problems than an F1 gear box. It also is more satisfying to drive, personally.

The F1 system that I have touched, is slow to build up pressure, flashes its light at you which means you need to change the relay, or the accumulator, or the pump, and maybe upgrade to a 360 pump with the power cable swapped backwards. And once its all dialed in, the thing decided to let go all of its F1 fluid from inside the gear box.

Then there is the F1 car that is quick to build pressure, does not flash its light, does not leak, but shifts up or down with a shove in the back every time.

Compared to those, the 6 speed gear box cars drive right off the bat, double clutch into each gear with a positive click, and I especially enjoy the fact that when the rev goes up to match the next gear down, I know it was my right foot that did the blip. No flashing F1 light, no pump, no relay, no accumulator, no quick disconnect hose to leak, and no shove in the back.

There is one down side the 6 speed. After an engine out service, I do need to bleed the clutch line. I will gladly trade that off for the fact that I do not need a SD computer after I change my clutch.

Now let me summarize my experience with this one statement: Buy a 6 speed.

You happy now?

 

If you went through 2 F1 pumps in 10k miles try changing your relay it might be sticking.

 

I don't think it is that simple. One could say "The Corvette doesn't need these services and have those failures, and is faster, oh and you can drive it for 200k miles without going through 3 engine overhauls and the valves falling apart. Buy a Corvette, Ferrari's are garbage." And he would be mostly correct, but there is something very special about these cars that make them worth the trouble. I think the same is true about the 355F1.

 

Yup. You need a 6 speed.

F1 drivers appreciate a different feel.

 

Is it possible to buy anything else?

 

Absolutely! I share that feeling entirely. We should never forget how fortunate we are. For us it's a Ferrari, a mythical car sure but it's in our garage, it's part of our day to day life. It's just something we own, a small part of our lives like so many others (family, business, etc). But for the vast majority, it's an unobtainable dream. We should enjoy our cars regardless of the transmission chosen and help others less fortunate than us in the process.

I for one am unconditionally available to answer any questions any prospective buyer may have regarding the F1 gearbox, to give him all the information and enlightment I can so he/she can make an informed decision, like I did. Like I previously stated, I was one prospective buyer who was put off by all the misinformation present in our forum at times. In the end I decided to pull the trigger on a 355, but I believe many did the exact opposite and walked away from a Ferrari that has been labelled as one of the best cars ever, and that is a shame.

I believe we're here to help (I know I was helped a lot by members), not to vent and/or rant our personal opinions without proof regarding the F1 system. Even if I end up with a gearbox problem, I'll do the utmost to explain what happened and how I turned it around. Even if it malfunctions, it's not proof that the F1 system is/has a cronic problem. For me, it'll be a perfectly good example of a wonderful thing that isn't bulletproof (but then again, what is in this life?!). Not the end of the world, far from it. I prefer spending money in my car than in hospital!

Kindest regards and all the best,

Nuno.

 

My 2 cents...LOVE the F1!!! Yes 3 pedal cars are fun, I enjoy that in my STI...but for my Ferrari I wanted it closest to the Formula 1 feel as possible.

As for problems...my car is over 50k miles, 15k+ on my watch and zero problems. Pump is fine, clutch is at 6 years, 15k miles and has lots of life left (inspected last major). Actuator leaks in cold weather like they all pretty much do, wipe it up with a rag and keep on driving

 

Precisely. A cursory glance through this section of the website should make it obvious that there are very few actual problems reported with the F1 system.

In fact, far, far fewer than several other aspects of the 355.
An obvious example would be the Spider top, but I don't see anyone saying you should avoid buying a Spider because the top can be a pain.

The truth is that there are some people who simply "don't like" the paddle-shift transmission as a matter of principle. A lot of these guys would never have driven or even been in one, and have almost certainly never owned one.

If you listen to people who actually own these cars you will soon learn that problems are few and far between (yes, of course there are some).
Most owners of F1 cars are very happy with them and wouldn't have it any other way.
Me included. A properly sorted F1 transmission works beautifully, if slower than the modern double-clutch versions.

Drive both versions and buy the one you like the most. That's all you need to know.

 

Buy what you like. It's essentially the same car either way. There's nothing wrong with having a preference...unless the fear of unexpected maintenance costs is your biggest concern, then the 6 speed would be the less costly of the two to fix.

From what I've gathered through my heavy reading over the years is that the F1 transmission clutch, when driven by someone who understands what it's doing inside when you flip the paddle, will last just as long as the manual transmission clutch. I understand there are other factors when it comes to the F1's reliability but at the end of the day you bought a Ferrari for a reason...cutting edge (for its time) technology. The 355F1 is a historic car in my opinion, and it's not even 20 years old.

I doubt the next generation will want to drive 6 speed manual cars...just as we don't want to hand crank our cars when we go out to the garage before we drive them. Technology will always progress. Whether or not you're willing to embrace it is up to you. I personally don't think in the long run the difference in value between the two options will be much if at all...considering there were many more 6 speed manual cars that left the factory than F1 transmission cars.

My ideal garage would have both, an F1 and a gated Berlinetta.

Buy what you like. Drive it, break it, fix it, repeat.

 

That is really good to hear UConn Husky, I think it is important for people with the F1 transmission to "chime in" with positive experiences so those of us who are looking at purchasing one of these cars have a better picture of the ownership experience. All too often it is only the people with negative experiences that feel motivated enough to relay their experience. Like you, I love my STi (2008, WRB, Gold BBS, Hatch). I am very curious about this "F1 Transmission" option, because, like you, I would like to have a different experience with this car more in line with the Formula One car.

It goes without saying that the marque of Ferrari is built, to a great extent, on it's racing history and pedigree. One of the things I have found so interesting about the research I have done, is the concept that Ferrari is a race team that sells cars to support its racing efforts, and not the other way around, which is the traditional approach taken by pretty much all other manufacturers. Which I think has lead to the recent "shake up" at Ferrari due to poor F1 performance. But I digress. At the end of the day, my feeling is that I have an S2000 which is manual, an STi, which is manual, so do I really want to purchase a car that is so closely associated with F1 racing with a manual as well? Hmmmm......

There is a car for sale in Kelowna, B.C. by Moter Werke for a client, Mr. Clift. Quite honestly it is the nicest car in the country currently on the market, as far as I can tell. The only issue I have is the fact that it has the F1 transmission, and the price is a little high (but justifiable given the "preventative modifications" such as Fabspeed headers, etc. that have been performed).

The question for me is, do I pay the premium for a car that is fantastic, but has the F1 transmission, and I am a little leery about it's longevity, or do I purchase a lesser "sorted" car with a manual transmission, and suffer when and if the headers crack? Thoughts?

 

I like this. Well said!!

 

Once again, well said.

 

I'd buy the best car you can find regardless of transmission type.

If it is a 100% condition car and with other known issues addressed such as headers and you like the color combo, then:

Congratulations. Go buy it, be happy. In that order.

You will NEVER find a car that is to your exact specs with:

model type / perfect condition / maintenance / transmission / color / price / history / or something that does not need attention.

You can only pick many of these but will never get them ALL in combination.

Robb

 

I would just comment that I don't see the point about wording about header. Of all the things that may need sorting headers just aren't very expensive to deal with. Certainly make sure that if the car has OEM headers that they are ok and that the PPI shows no compression or leak down problems. $3k for a set of Fabspeed headers when the OEM ones have to be replaced should not be a deal breaker IMO.

 

Excellent advice guys, and I agree. I have been at this for the better half of a year now and I am no closer to finding a car that meets all my specifications than I was when I started.

 

After 8 years and 42k miles on top of the 11k it had when I bought mine, the only things I had to deal with relating to the transmission were replacing the F1 pump, replacing the LEDs in the gear select display, and replacing the clutch a few times. These aren't too expensive and you'd have to replace the clutch every once in a while in either setup, so I figure it's really not much different than dealing with a standard transmission.

The only downside/problems I had with mine were a few situations on very steep hills, once in reverse, that pretty much took years off the life of the clutch disk. If you live in SF you might want 3 pedals, otherwise I wouldn't worry too much about it.

When I bought my car there was another one with the exact same spec but with a stick, but I opted for the F1 because I can't get comfortable in the 3 pedal car. There's no room in the footwell for my feet so I have to bend my legs at a weird angle, which is no fun considering I frequently did long road trips in it. You can't go wrong either way, but like others have said just drive both and see which one you prefer.