2 Blue Angels grounded for inappropriate relationship

What do they consider inappropriate? One of them must have been married or someone's "off limits" daughter?

 

Another possibility:
Officer/enlisted or chain of command.

You don't even have to be guilty, all that's required is perception. There is no due process required, totally up to the Commander.

 

And who's sh!tlist you're on (or not on).

 

Forgot that one, but boy is that true!

 

At no times did my fingers leave my hands...

 

Tom Cruise and Kelly McGillis got away with it...

 

I have a recollection from the 70's when the Blue Angels (or was it Thunderbirds?) were in town for an airshow. A few heard about a great CW bar in Minneapolis, "The Flame". At least two ended up in jail after a fight broke out.

 

That was clearly PRE-TAILHOOK....after which everything changed in all of the services.

 

So, if they're in the Military, but suspended on a whim, there's no protection, as there would be for citizens of States?

They can't submit any evidence, whether it's admissable, best, character, circumstantial, clear and convincing, conclusive, concomitant, conflicting, corraborating, credible, critical, cumulative, demeanor, demonstrative, direct, documentary, evidence-in-chief, exclusive, exculpatory, extrajudicial, extrinsic, foundational, habit, indispensable, intrinsic, judicial, legal, material, mathematical, moral, multiple, negative, opinion, original, parol, partial, presumptive, prima facie, probative, proffered, prospectant, real, rebuttal, relevant, reputation, satisfactory, slight, substantial, substantive, testimonial or unwritten evidence?

They just get suspended because Commander says so?

For example, Parolees and Probationers are supposed to have Due Process, by means of getting a word in edgewise, offer evidence and so forth due to following;

Fourteenth Amendment [1868]
Section 1
Section 5
Equal Protection Clause
Estep v. United States [1946]
Morrissey v. Brewer [1972]

 

Different system - UCMJ and USC are two very different things.

 

Yes, distinctly different.

The long version...

Chapter 47. Uniform Code of Military Justice

 

Officer/ Enlisted romantic relationships are a no no.

OPNAV Instruction 5370.2B

Prohibited Relationships:
a. Personal relationships between officer and enlisted members that are unduly familiar and that do not respect differences in grade or rank are prohibited. Such relationships are prejudicial to good order and discipline and violate long-standing traditions of the Naval service.

b. Personal relationships between chief petty officers (E-7 to E-9) and junior personnel (E-l to E-6), who are assigned to the same command, that are unduly familiar and that do not respect differences in grade or rank are prohibited. Likewise, personal relationships that are unduly familiar between staff/instructor and student personnel within Navy training commands, and between recruiters and recruits/applicants that do not respect differences in grade, rank, or the staff/student relationship are prohibited. Such relationships are prejudicial to good order and discipline, and violate long-standing traditions of the Naval service.

 

Was just going to post about fraternization with enlisted personnel. You beat me to it!

CW

 

FWIW:

Since they are not afloat/underway, they 'can' request a courts martial. IF underway, they cannot/no choice: it is up to the old man to hold MAST [good] or CM [bad].

Rules of evidence in CM are like in any court. regardless of the type CM that is conducted. HOWEVER< the conviction in CM lasts for life. IT is a federally registered crime and stays with them for life. You had better be very sure of a win, otherwise you are out of luck...DD214 and such, with a possible Dishonorable Discharge!! not good.

IF enlisted, and you get mast, then the record is expunged when you re-enlist or leave the service: torn up, discarded never to be heard, seen or brought up again.

IN an officer's case, which is what I suspect here, the old man gave them the CM or mast approach which is his duty to do so, but 'strongly urged' the participants to accept either a letter of reprimand or suspension, which is far less: BTW chances of an officer getting mast is very slim....CM would mean, almost career death if convicted. IF not convicted, not such a bad deal.

 

Excellent discussion of UCMJ.
Bottom line - commander has the final say if non judicial punishment, and he or anyone senior in the chain of command may choose to prefer charges for a court at any time.

It is important to remember that no matter what you may hear, the chain of command and UCMJ is about one thing primarily: to give the commander the tools to maintain good order and discipline. It's not just about the member as in a civilian situation, it extends much farther: it's about the military unit.

As the commander is ultimately responsible for ALL under his command, he ultimately gets to make the final decision.

It's always been that way - remember, the commander can lawfully order you to go and killed, so this is small potatoes.

There was the inplication earlier that this can be abused by unscrupulous commanders. Sure. Most commanders are very good folks trying to do the best they can, but are there a few bad ones - certainly - and a few have made remarkably high rank on the blood and bodies of others.

But, all of my military friends here have seen that so there is no need to push the point.

 

As easy at it would be to say just let these two adults make their own decision, this rule is there for a reason. It's there to protect people lower in the chain of command from abuse of power. Without it, I have my own opinions on what would happen.

 

Nice, and accurate, overview.

 

HAHA! Sure, matching closets to hide in....

 

You just have to be perfect for the Angels or T-birds. Short haircut, maximum of 1 inch grass in your garden, happily married, 3 kids......... And if anything changes;

Say goodbye to your career!

 

At least they put a stop to it before it became a NASA like debacle, but that was between officers!

 

Wow this is all new to me and I grew up in Pensacola! My moms house is right across the bayou from the runway and every time a Blue Angel lands or takes off we don't just hear it but feel it. I may be able to check with friends back home and see if I can hear any more details. My grandmother and aunt used to clean one of the pilots house for a while. I don't know how they can do the shows now minus one jet but evidently it's happening. Somebody is in some major trouble evidently.

 

Obviously romantic relationships would be considered "unduly familiar", but are there any other relationships considered as such? What if a 1st Lt. walked into a bar and some of the enlisted guys under his command offered to buy him a beer and they watched the Monday Night Football game together for a while? I can remember when I was in high school some guys from the naval base would play paintball at the field where we played, and there was usually a mix of officer/enlisted that seemed to know each other and get along well.

 

Very good observation; again, it is all at the perception of the unit Commander as to what he believes is appropriate for relationships that promote good order and discipline. Some guys are loose, some guys are hard over - you need to know what motivates the old man.