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2 Ferrari and motorcycle crash.

Discussion in 'New York Tri-State' started by rmani, May 13, 2012.

  1. titanium430isback

    titanium430isback Formula Junior

    Oct 12, 2010
    408
    yes thats why its called an accident. its amazing how everyone make a decision without having all the facts

    just remember everyone thought strauss kahn was guilty also
     
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  3. Redlambo

    Redlambo Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 5, 2004
    1,519
    Pendergrass GA
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    Vic Woloschinow
    Swerving into the opposite lane to avoid an accident while driving the speed limit would justify his actions.
    Swerving into the opposite lane to avoid an accident while going way over the 25 MPH speed limit is another story.
    If it is proven that they were going well above the speed limit speeding then it is pretty over for him.
    However that is just my opinion we will find out over time what happens.
     
  4. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2003
    1,695
    Nicosia, Cyprus/Cali
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    Zacharias
    25mph crashes don't cause damage like that. 19 year olds in ferraris are not known for sedate speeds and safety consciousness...it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck.

    Swerving into AN oncoming lane of traffic and having a head-on crash with traffic rightfully occupying that lane and proceeding in the legally correct direction, will ALWAYS put you at fault. Even if you swerved to avoid a baby lying in the middle of your lane. That's why they teach you to leave enough distance to be able to come to a safe stop IN YOUR OWN LANE.

    Your reasoning is just nuts. You cannot just occupy an oncoming lane of traffic and endanger everyone in it. That is beyond reckless/incompetent. Basic driving principles make it totally unnecessary to go into the oncoming lane in the first place.

    If you jumped off a falling ladder and landed on someone, killing them, could you claim that you did it out of a concern for safety for yourself? Simply securing the ladder properly in the first place would eliminate this danger. Not doing so is negligent, and depending on how obvious the danger is, it's recklessly negligent.

    Swerving into oncoming lanes of traffic is also reckless.
     
  5. Caio

    Caio Karting

    Mar 17, 2012
    82
    Miami
  6. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2003
    1,695
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    Zacharias
    I don't see how 24.9 versus 25.1 mph would have made any difference. That's the problem with speed limits. Life is much more of a gray scale than black and white.

    In this case, the problem is not with exceeding the speed limit, which may have been set too low or too high, rather it's with driving in an unsafe manner. That includes the driving behaviour leading up to the crash, the hazardous situation resulting from careless/dangerous driving, and then the incredibly dumb move of swerving into oncoming traffic.

    Too bad it wasn't a truck coming in the opposite direction...he would have gotten his just dues. Unfortunately, if there had been a huge truck there, he would have probably been too cowardly to swing out in the first place. Moron. And some innocent biker had to pay the price for his recklessness.
     
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  8. Redlambo

    Redlambo Formula 3
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    Vic Woloschinow

    Oh, I don't have a doubt in my mind that they were traveling well over 25 MPH it just has to be proven. Which is easy enough to do as they will just access the black boxes to show how fast and what the drivers did prior to the accident.

    As far as swerving, all I meant was "IF" (which is incredibly doubtful) he was traveling the speed limit and the car next to him hit the curb his gut reaction would be to swerve away from the other vehicle. Braking isn't going to change anything if you are side by side and the car next to you hits a curb and shoots into your lane, you are going to swerve to avoid contact.

    If black boxes did not exist, a defense attorney could argue that the motorcyclist was traveling at the high rate of speed and that the huge amount of damage was actually caused by the motorcycle hitting the Ferrari. I am not by an means suggesting that, I am just saying there is no black box on the cycle however they are on the cars.
     
  9. smooth

    smooth Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2005
    673
    Nowadays, who doesn't plead "not guilty" ??? But, the facts will prove otherwise, I'm sure !
    Even Anders Behring Breivik (Norway's recent mass murderer) has plead not guilty. Yeah, right .... he is completely innocent of gunning down all those kids on Utøya Island, and the bombing in downtown Oslo !!! "He didn't do nuffin'" lol.
     
  10. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    Sorry, my bad. But still stick to the point I was making.
     
  11. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    Wrong. In NJ, as in most states, the owner or leasee of the vehicle is liable, even if someone else was driving. And in NJ, this would not be considered "outside the scope of employment." They were hired to drive the cars. The fact that they did so carelessly or recklessly doesn't absolve their employer.
     
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  13. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    By the way, don't the Ferraris have the mandatory "black box" that records the last 15 or 20 seconds of operation before a crash? If so, an accident reconstruction expert can extract the information and plug it into a computer and they will know exactly how fast they were going, what the throttle position was, and when they hit their brakes.

    Plus, I wouldn't be surprised at all if GDCs had GPS units in these cars to track their usage. If so, it will show not only how fast they were going, but what they were doing, relative position of the cars to one another, etc. That, in and of itself, could prove whether they were racing or not.
     
  14. lor2435

    lor2435 Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2005
    1,000
    NYC
    Their cars all have gps records showing speed, direction and location. They know exactly how fast these cars were going. If GDC cared what their employees were doing in the cars they could have stopped this reckless behavior long ago.
     
  15. hexxman

    hexxman Karting

    Oct 25, 2006
    142
    10016
    Full Name:
    NB
    this exactly was my point from my earlier post. the owner(s) of GDC condoned or accepted or use any other word you want to describe their actions. so, thats why they should be held responsible as well. unfortunatley, they most likely will not be prosecuted... but, i hope this tragic event wakes them up from a sound sleep every nite!
     
  16. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Clyde E. McMurdy
    I certainly dont know if he had GPS on the cars. I would expect so.
    But unless he was monitoring his employees at that very time, he wouldn't be accepting anything. I would expect him to trust his employees to treat company property with respect and get gas and return. They are employees. They've been around these cars before. Monitor renters? Sure. Monitor employees for short trips? Maybe when they are first new, but once they prove themselves trustworthy - no.
     
  17. sjmst

    sjmst F1 Veteran
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    Jul 31, 2003
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    Deny? I simply don't know. And even if every one of those facts are proven, that does not prove negligence or much of anything else. Every one of those actions, even if true, does not automatically mean there was a crime. Once all facts are known then we can say for sure. This is why the police and prosecutor investigate and if necessary go to trial. Trial. Were allegations must be proven using evidence. Not conjecture based on news reports and internet chat.
     
  18. Ciao Bello 348

    Ciao Bello 348 Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2005
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    John C
    Hey Clyde... long time no see. Hope you are well.

    I saw the news last week and followed the story, so I knew there would be something here on FChat.

    Sad situation for everyone involved and an innocent father/husband taken from his family. Wrong place, wrong time.

    The lawyers will battle it out. Just a horrible story. Based on what we read in the news articles, doesn't look good for anyone or any company involved. One of the reasons I got out of the exotics and motorcycle hobby is the risks. You were on the poker runs, breakfast runs, etc... pushing it to the limit, some more than others.
     
  19. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,288
    very sad story

    I've rented from GDC before, I thought they were very professional. Ultimately it comes down to the individual(s) in charge if their own decisions.

    be careful everyone
     
  20. hexxman

    hexxman Karting

    Oct 25, 2006
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    NB
    i cant say i agree, yes an employer should trust their employees, but GDC has been aware that employees (and renters) have been driving recklessly on public streets. since GDC was aware, and evidently didnt cure, they would be negligent. trusting employees sometimes just isnt enough, take for example the two brilliant NJ state troopers that escorted a convoy of reckless exotic car drivers at 100mph+ on the parkway...their employer trusted them....

    idk...a 19yo and 28yo, two ferraris, accident...smells like a race to me. they are actually very lucky that racing on a public street, although a crime, is not a felony. otherwise, their manslaughter charge would be escalated to felony murder. and yes you are correct, all are entitled to fair trial, and they will be tried fairly im sure. but i am also sure that finding witness to two ferraris driving down the street will not be difficult for investigators.
     
  21. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 Veteran
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    Nov 4, 2003
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    Clyde E. McMurdy
    Hi. Yep, I've been around at the various events. You should still come out to some.

    And yes, very very sad affair the accident. My heart goes out to all.
     
  22. lor2435

    lor2435 Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2005
    1,000
    NYC
    Not sure about the 19yr old but the 28yr old was hired in March, I'd say he's still a new employee.
     
  23. smooth

    smooth Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2005
    673
    ...." still a new employee" ....
    Isn't he (the 28yo) the brother of the owner of GDC ?? He may have been officially "hired in March", but it's pretty safe to assume that he's most likely been 'in league' with this enterprise for years. Undeniably, he should have acted more responsibly !
     
  24. F SPIDER

    F SPIDER F1 Rookie
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    Jan 30, 2002
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    rijk rietveld
    I'm with Clyde.
     
  25. smooth

    smooth Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2005
    673
    You, Clyde (and other repudiators) WILL be eating your words. ;)
     
  26. ghibliman

    ghibliman Formula Junior

    Feb 19, 2009
    391
    I'm with you.....it doesn't seem too difficult to understand the turn of events here. The police have come to the same conclusion.....that why these two idiots wound up in the clink.

    I'm looking forward to sentencing.
     
  27. petearron

    petearron Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Jul 1, 2009
    674
    Las Vegas
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    jeff
    I dont think they even need the GPS, they can tell speed by skid marks.

    Looking at the damage I would say 100mph+ impact between the bike and car at least.

    Bike may have been going max 40mph, Ferrari 60mph+.
     
  28. darkalley

    darkalley Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2004
    822
    Full Name:
    Jim
    People need to wait to see all the facts and remember innocent until proven guilty. Just because you post videos of yourself doing donuts in intersections, going 100mph plus over NYC bridges, west side highway, brag to magazines about your skill at speeding, doing burnouts throughout NYC, laughing about your reckless behavior because you are "in control", and getting 100 plus traffic violations, you can't just say speed was a factor here.... . You can't live a life bragging about reckless driving and then expect it to be ignored.
     

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