2002 BBC video about the sale and auction of '62 LM winner 330 TRI/LM #0808. | Page 2 | FerrariChat

2002 BBC video about the sale and auction of '62 LM winner 330 TRI/LM #0808.

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by miurasv, Dec 27, 2016.

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  1. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,101
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    #26 johnhoughtaling, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,101
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    #27 johnhoughtaling, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,101
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    #28 johnhoughtaling, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,101
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    Sorry for the crappy pictures. Maybe someone better at this can clean up. Not very good at tech stuff
     
  5. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
    7,273
    Nice video. Thanks for posting.
     
  6. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2004
    12,586
    The Netherlands
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    Peter den Biggelaar
    #32 bigodino, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here it is at the RM Fiorano auction (driven by Luca Badoer).
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  7. geno berns

    geno berns F1 Rookie

    Oct 26, 2006
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    Geno
    John very nice painting but your office/home is a stunner!

    Geno

     
  8. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,017
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    Great pictures, chaps and painting, John.

    0808TRI was fastest in practice at Le Mans, 1963, and in record time, but retired in the race due to the engine blowing up and then crashing into the trees with Roger Penske at the wheel. According to Finn's Testa Rossa V-12 book the engine was reduced to rubbish and after the car was rebuilt with a more streetable 3.0 litre engine, a coupe body and then used as a road car. The car has its original tipo 163 4.0 litre engine now but did the car ever actually have a 3.0 litre engine?

    Also it's been reported that 0808TRI was made with a brand new chassis and was not based on the chassis of 0780TR as was previously thought so wondered what the truth of the matter is?
     
  9. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,101
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    #35 johnhoughtaling, Jan 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
    Lots of forensic and documentary research done prior to purchase from PB. Engine original from 62 lemans. No truth to rubish engine claim. All evidence was that chassis was 0780 but was modified by factory from 0780 in 62. After crash in 63, coupe body was placed and used on streets of NYC. (Although I think it was used in New Orleans more!). I know of no credible evidence that the engine was ever swapped at any time to make more steerable or any other reason. Engine was very streetable and got lots of use as such when I knew it. Maybe someone got rumors confused. PB had F reconstruct the body but Chassis and engine original.

    Some personal observations: Car has big power and big torque and very fast even by standards of today. Windshield made a little different from original which had a frame. Original better but not safer. Car is gorgeous in person from most angles except the K back. Interestingly the identical thing can be said of the breadvan with more extreme K back. In person it's striking how very similar both cars are in the proportions of the front. Where engine is set very very low and back and creates beautiful front arches and low front end. But both cars sacrifice asthetics for aero at back in same way
     
  10. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2010
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    Another poster on Fchat some years ago also claimed to have documents that proved the new chassis theory, not sure of their veracity but there you go. Its difficult to know how or why chassis #0780 would exist for 60 years without being discovered or known.......
     
  11. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,017
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    #37 miurasv, Jan 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
    Thanks for your reply. I picked up that 0808TRI was built on a new chassis from the RM Auctions description below for its sale at Maranello in 2007.

    "It had been thought for years that Ferrari based the chassis of the 330 TRI/LM on the modified frame of 250 TRI60/61 s/n 0780, however records recently discovered at Ferrari make it clear this was not the case.

    Invoicing from Ferrari’s frame supplier, Vaccari, reflecting the construction of a new frame specifically for the 4-litre 330 TRI/LM project show that 0808 was built on its own chassis, the same one still fitted, designed specifically to take advantage of the opportunity presented by the new rules – and to win LeMans. Not only built as the last Testa Rossa but also the last front-engined Ferrari sports racer of any kind, Ferrari’s concept for the 4-litre 330 TRI/LM and determination that it would be a serious challenger for the Experimental category and overall wins is clearly demonstrated by the decision to make the 330 TRI/LM a completely new, purpose-built car to carry the 4-litre engine.

    The 4-litre Lampredi V-12 was some 4” longer than the 3-litre Colombo engines for which the Testa Rossa chassis was designed, so the new frame was made longer than the standard 3-litre Testa Rossa - but by only 6.3cm to retain the car’s balance. At the same time it was made extra strong to handle the additional power and torque of the bigger engine. The standard TRI61 5-speed gearbox was also augmented with stronger gears; the suspension was the all-independent, coil spring design that had proven its robust road holding in the TRI 60 and 61. Given the chassis number 0808, Ferrari installed an extensively modified Tipo 163 Superamerica V-12 that closely pressed the 4-litre maximum with 3,967cc. With special Testa Rossa-style free-breathing cylinder heads, big valves and six 2-barrel Weber 42 DCN carbs, the big V-12 was tuned to give 390 horsepower for the race, at least 50 more horsepower than the best of the earlier Scuderia Ferrari Testa Rossas had ever had."


    See here: 1962 Ferrari 330 TRI/LM Testa Rossa Spyder | Ferrari ? Leggenda e Passione 2007 | RM Sotheby's

    Weren't you involved in this sale on behalf of the owner/consigner?

    There is a copy of the 0808TRI build sheets in Finn's Testa Rossa V-12 book. There is no mention of 0780TRI on the build sheets, but if the chassis was built from 0780TRI would the build sheets indicate this or would new sheets have been made? Though, if it does have a new chassis what happened to 0780TRI?

    It must be absolutely fantastic to drive!!!
     
  12. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,101
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    #38 johnhoughtaling, Jan 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
    Yes I was involved with Jim during the first transaction, and at that time the evidence pointed to 0780 was used in the manufacture of the new 0808 Chassis. I was quite busy in 07 and wasn't with Jim during 07 auction. Didn't notice that line in the catalogue about evidence it was build from an entirely new chassis. I have spent time in Ferraris archives and was involved with the restoration and repair of other important car and I can say the classic department has made a great effort of digging up files. But on this I never saw what is referenced here (and was absent before that catelogue printing) so I can't comment on what stands behind that statement. I do wonder what makes them sure that parts of 0780 was not used as even the presence of new blueprints would not forclose this, (I agree with your suggestion that how would they know) and it begs the question of what happened to 0780, but without seeing the evidence upon which the statement is based I can't add anything. But when I knew the car the issue was never dug into too deeply bc it didn't affect 0808s value either way and was just an interesting anecdote.

    As for driving impression, it's immesly powerful. Lot of torque, much like a big block and in this was quite unique. I understand Hills comments about being sure he'd blow the clutch. Very different than the pitch and sound and high wail of the engine in the breadvan (which with side pipes had a shreek that is forever etched in my brain). I was able to push and slide the breadvan on the track and I can tell you it's handling was sublime, unbelievable.
     
  13. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,017
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    Thanks for coming back to me and for the driving impressions. Much appreciated. I think 0808TRI is an amazing car. Outright LM winner and fastest in practice the next year so a real contender for the win!!!
     
  14. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,017
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    Actually there is a note in Finn's book stating that the team cars Assembly Sheets detail the specification/configuration at the time of sale to a customer. There would be no information on the sheets regarding rebuilds or original state etc.
     

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