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360 2003 360 decat dyno

Discussion in '360/430' started by EhellGuapo, Jan 9, 2021.

  1. EhellGuapo

    EhellGuapo Rookie

    Sep 25, 2016
    15
    2003 360, GruppeM intakes, Stradale/430 MAFs, Challenge catless headers, test pipes, Capristo 3, Mase tune.




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  3. RANDY6005

    RANDY6005 Formula 3
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    Jan 9, 2017
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    RANDY
    What was your hp at the wheels ?
     
  4. EhellGuapo

    EhellGuapo Rookie

    Sep 25, 2016
    15
    The run after this gave the best output. Image Unavailable, Please Login


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  5. Michael B

    Michael B F1 Rookie
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    Apr 28, 2004
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    Thats a nice fat number. At 12% driveline loss (common Ferrari loss) you are at 425HP at the crank (374.2 divided by .88= 425). That will make for a spirited drive!
     
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  6. EhellGuapo

    EhellGuapo Rookie

    Sep 25, 2016
    15
    I’m looking forward to it for sure. Such a great car.


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  8. 02360spider

    02360spider Formula 3
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    May 27, 2015
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    Wow I need to do a tune next!

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  9. timwu12

    timwu12 Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2014
    691
    Houston, TX
    Wow, that sounds mean!


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  10. 02360spider

    02360spider Formula 3
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    May 27, 2015
    1,191
    What whp did you get on your dyno?

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  11. one4torque

    one4torque Formula 3

    May 20, 2018
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    That dyno pull is sooo fast!
    My ls m3 takes forever to get to 6400rpm..on the dyno w 480 rwhp.
    this thing rips like a 2 stroke bike!

    can’t wait for drive impressions.
     
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  13. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Oct 29, 2005
    3,570
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    360trev
    Nice. Did you get a printout of the torque/power curves? Did you do a dyno before the tune and after?

    For reference here are some pointers for other people to consider when working on or planning the most common 'bolt on' performance upgrades.
    • Sports cats (180 cel) produce around 20-25hp gain.
      • A simple 'test pipe' or de-cat would be marginally higher (2hp gain for multiple times louder) at say 26-27hp on their own (at crank).
      • These are the main cats located just before the muffler, 1 per side. Along with deletion of the header cats (not fitted on early cars) are one of the biggest power increases your likely to make for the money.
      • One of the more noticeable benefits are sharper throttle responses, improved torque and more solid step in sound. For reference and those thinking about upgrading cats, a 400 cell Cat means there are 400 cells per square inch. As cell count decrease the number of physical cells reduce, and therefore resistance to flow (back pressure) reduces too.
      • The good compromise is often to use 180-200 cell cats (typically 400 cell is what is used by car manufacturers).
      • If you go lower (and louder) your likely to trigger a CEL as catalyzer efficiency parameters are tripped. The engine motronic software is configured at factory to monitor how well a job the cats are doing and will trigger the CEL if they think they aren't cleaning the air well enough. This can of course be re-configured in a remap.
      • Personally I am not a big fan of total de-cat if you plan to use the car in cities. I think it makes the car a little too noisy to live with and therefore less easy to enjoy it. Believe me, sports cats with a Challenge style exhaust with reconfigured valves will be more than enough! The 180 Cell is the fantastic compromise as only a 2-3 hp differential at peak is achieved vs more useable car. Ofcouse really depends on how you use the car and if you have understanding neighbors or not!
    • Sports Air Intake.
      • The GruppeM intake claims to yield a gain of 8.5hp (unverified except from sales information).
      • Panel filters will gain a 1-2hp at the top end of the rpm range but also make a sucking sound that you either like or not.
      • Once thing is for certain that the GruppeM being made of composites will definitely help out to reduce heat soak power losses. Ofcourse you can always clad your stock airboxes to help reduce intake temps too and use high flow panel filters to gain a few hp's.
      • I do have a brand new GruppeM here so I'll have to throw it on a car and do a before and after comparison with CS setup. I don't know if the air disarator from the intake was replaced with a "360 Challenge" high flow pipe or not in this car but it can also improve airflow too so worth considering.
    • Sports Muffler.
      • Most manufacturers claim a small gain (5hp) however the biggest gains are ones which a X-piped to achieve cross flow benefits for flow rates but also lets not forget the stock back box is heavy so you'll also save a lot of weight and (if designed well heat) right off the back of the car which improves handling and engine bay heat retention.
      • Personally I think you cannot go wrong with factory optional Challenge 'Style' exhaust (or often cited incorrectly as CS exhaust).
    So if you think about gains, your looking at 35-40hp @ crank. (31-35hp rwhp) if you choose the best bolt on bits and thats before you even look at the mapping side of things. In this case the car also has larger air flow meters from the F430/CS which help with peak airflow gains at higher rpm's too but they also require a remap to work properly. Well chosen upgrades. Well done!
     
  14. 02360spider

    02360spider Formula 3
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    May 27, 2015
    1,191
    What about 430 throttle bodys any gains there when paired with 430 mafs?

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  15. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Oct 29, 2005
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    In combination with remapping you can see gains too but to take full advantage you also need to enlarge the port into the intake itself and repaint with red crackle once done. I'll see if I can do some before and after dyno's soon to show 'bang per buck' of different combinations.
     
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  16. EhellGuapo

    EhellGuapo Rookie

    Sep 25, 2016
    15
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    I don’t have the printout from the baseline but it was about 20hp down from this. Car had primary cat delete and a tubi on it then and was throwing a CEL on the baseline pull. CEL was still showing during these runs so we’re ordering the obd adapter so we can hook up to it and see what’s going on. The reflash should’ve cleared it but we’ll see what it is.



    When I picked the 360 up I dropped off a manual M6 and we did the baseline pull. It has the secondary cats, resonator, and muffler deleted and had a better result than I would’ve expected. It’s definitely possible that the dyno is optimistic.


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  17. EhellGuapo

    EhellGuapo Rookie

    Sep 25, 2016
    15
    #14 EhellGuapo, Jan 11, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
    [​IMG]
    The intakes also come with a heat shield which I thought was a nice touch. It always amazed me that they were so close to the exhaust with no shielding.

    You’re the man btw. Ty for the suggestions. You, STG, and Aldous Voice pushed me over the edge to buy this specific car. I’ve thought this was the sweet spot in the range for years but you guys made me pull the trigger.

    It’s nearly as pure as cars get with a manual. I know that there are gearboxes that shift faster than me. There are machines that can handle my wife better than me too, but I still prefer the pleasure of addressing her needs myself.


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  18. clean512

    clean512 Formula Junior
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    Feb 4, 2010
    455
    Nor Cal
    Nice set up. Can't wait to do some testing after I get stage 2 with trev. That sounds really good I had the capristo too but did not like the low end sound but the high rpm sounded good. I switched over to the CS. But I bet that thing rips
     
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  19. 02360spider

    02360spider Formula 3
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    May 27, 2015
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    What is stage 2?

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  20. clean512

    clean512 Formula Junior
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    Feb 4, 2010
    455
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    Stage 2 is usually more turning compared from stage 1. And most stage 1 tunes are different from tunners. Since I'm with AV and love the way trev is working with me. I'm going with there stage 2 now since i just did the CS mass air meters and the the fuel map will be more aggressive. And a higher rev limit. But once again each tuner will have there own way of doing it
     
  21. 02360spider

    02360spider Formula 3
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    May 27, 2015
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    Does he do stage 3?

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  22. clean512

    clean512 Formula Junior
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    Feb 4, 2010
    455
    Nor Cal
    reach out to them if you want and with your end goal. Each runner is different and each car is different.
     

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