2008 Engine Freeze - Getting really ugly!

I have never been a fan of GPMA, but this engine freeze rule is the death of F1 as we know it. I can only hope it will never happen, but if things come to a war, I'd be following the series Ferrari will race in.

 

Amazing.

It seems the GPMA just totally laid down and let Max have his way with them. So the engines they are using as of this past June will be the ones they use for 07, 08 and 09? Previously teams like Minardi and Jordan could go with Cosworth or another teams customer engines and have a potent powerplant. They didn't HAVE to spend the money on R&D, they let the supplier do that. Now engine development is frozen.

Think this through.... so what will the net effect be? Teams will spend more money on chassis/ aero, and demand better tires. Well, the tires are already spec tires, which leaves the chassis/aero. Many of the smaller teams can't afford to engineer new chassis' every year anyways, so they fall hopelessly behind and embarass themselves on track (Minardi, Jordan, Aguri, etc). BMW, Toyota and the other big guys have their own wind tunnels costing tens of millions of $$ - something the little guys will never be able to afford.

So it seems the gap between the haves and have nots will just grow and grow. What will Max do then? Come up with a spec chassis or aero package and turn it into a spec series? He's already 2/3rds the way there!

Max needs to accept that he will never ever be able to reconcile the desire of the OEM's to have a place to spend $$ and race against each other at the top tech level, and the desire of individuals to participate too. It will simply never happen. He will either turn it into a spec series, or he will keep having the big guys win. If the former, the big guys will leave to race elsewhere. If the latter, the small guys will still never win which is no different from how it is now.

If he wants it to be exciting AND cut costs, then start in with restricting the aeros and leave engines and other tech advances alone.

 

This is ridiculous. I do not want to watch a series where there is no engine development. It is contrary to what F1 is all about. I see this as something that will not work and therefore they (the FIA) will have to change the rules, yet again, next year. This is more of a farce than the Indy race last year. I mean, how can they think that this will in any way be attractive to fans? Unbelievable. This may very well be the last year I follow F1.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. This is the worst rule they have introduced yet. Next they won't allow aero development, well except for the teams they see fit. These rules are a joke, mind as well just quit all the BS and make it spec.

Mark

 

I think Toyota's president said it all, this is the most idiotic rule from Max to date. If I were one of the teams that are a little down on power by Chinese GP, I would seriously re-consider my involvement in F1 as the only thing this rule is doing is to ensure the front runners staying in the front. I think Max and Bernie is taking the manufactures for granted. They think they have enough replacements waiting in the wings to enter F1, even if that is true, the new teams will still need an engine to run their cars, how does this rule affect them then? Will they have to buy engines from existing engine suppliers as a new supplier will not be able to develop their engine, and we all know that it takes time and actual race milage to test and develop an engine. I think this rule will not only drive manufactures out of F1, but engine suppliers too, especially those that are down on power now.

 

Ahem: Doesn't "Performance advantage" translate simply into engine development? Hello!!! They want to ban engine development, but allow performance advantages. Is the dog biting its own tail?

 

Does Prodrive have an engine supplier yet?

 

We're at a point where the teams, when in agreement, are realizing their strength. That's a good thing in general. Max could say "No new engines" to which they could just say "Yeah, right" and go on about their business of engine development.

 

Agreed on both.

Originally the engine freeze was supposed to be determined by the engine hp from May/June, which would have left some teams in a pickle. Now that "rule" went out the window as well. Good thing.

 

What I do not understand is that why does the rule not take affect after the end of the season at Brazil, but at China instead? Does this also mean that there will be more customers in '07 & '08 for Ferrari, Renault and maybe Mercedes-Benz? Assuming if I were BAR-Honda or Toyota, knowing that my powerplant is not up to par, will it be more cost affective to use one the three engines mentioned above and thus given a greater chance of competiting and winning?

Also, if I were a manufacture, I will use the most powerful spec engine I have in China and not worry about reliability as I have two years to work on that part then revert back to earlier spec engines for the two remaning races of the '06 season.

 

The series is becoming more and more like cart. Might as well have one engine supplier and one chassis supplier also.

 

so wait a minute, didn't max can Group C because it was infringing in on F1?

so now they are thinking a group C thought into F1? (more efficient engines)

bah, perhaps Bernie needs to separate F1 from FIA... somehow...

 

Why does it seem like only one or two people in the entire world have so much say over F1? Maybe Montoya made the right move.

 

Just my $.02, but the biggest mistake they make is constantly changing the rules (towards a spec series).

It is economics at its most basic level: law of diminishing return. If everything is (close to) spec, exorbinant amounts of money will be spent to gain the smallest possible advantage. Sure, a race in the rain will be open season where anyone can win, but how often does it rain in the current F1 calendar (ie, they specifically set it to avoid inclement conditions)?

The best thing F1 can do is to make it a quasi-open series. Single tire, rim, and brake supplier. Rough dimensions on height, width, and length of the car. Minimum weight. Set engine displacement (turbo).

Turbos are more efficient, in light of current oil prices, they should be working on them and letting the tech trickle down to the street.

 

Don't they already have this type of racing in GP2 (formerly Formula 3000) where all the cars are similar and the drivers talents are more of the determining factor. Those cars also race closer and pass more. I understand those cars are only 5 seconds off the pace of the F1 cars, no?

 

I'm trying to understand this rule change?!
-If ur engine sucks @ the end of the year you will suck till 2009!
-Everyone better buy a Ferrari or Renault engine or u will suck!


Where is the Devil's Advocate here?
A quote from F1.com

"The FIA had been planning an engine freeze from 2008, with teams having to homologate those engines this year. Monday’s news means the teams will now avoid the unnecessary expense of continuing development throughout 2007, only to then have to revert to their earlier designs."

Surley this can't be the only benefit in the minds of the FIA for this rule. Or is it? It just seems so dense & incomplete of a idea.

 

this ruel sucks. then in 2009 i hear they want to have the teams devlope hybred type engins. what the hell is this? if i wanted to watch a prius race i would go to one but i dont. i want to see the pinacle of moter sports.

 

HI Everyone,

As I read these posts about cessation of engine developement in F1, for the future years, I see this parallel; NASCAR does the same thing, does it not?
Carburators and pushrods may be the new F1 innovations.

Ciao...Paolo.

 

Remember back when (most) everyone had Cosworth DFV's from different sources ?

Listen, I'd LOVE to go back to the days of 'privateer' cars or teams, irregardless of the motor 'freeze', those days have been long gone since about 1984 or so, or since the introduction of the (expensive) turbo motors. I can't remember the last truly 'privateer' team, it might be the Prost team, or the ATS, or EJR, or Spirit, or Arrows, etc.

And besides, there is 'privateer', and then there is 'privateer', Moseley probably means 'privateer' in the vein of somebody new with a 'little' money being able to throw an old car on a flatbed trailer, buy a motor, and be competitive, when in reality 'privateer' means somebody 'with money' but without factory support like EJR or Stoddard being able to run a team (and be competitive). That's not going to happen. Ever again.

PASTMASTER - this isn't nascar, this is a technological development series. And besides, 15 years ago you could run an entire nascar team for a 31 race season for a million bucks, and today, Roush and RCR spend what, 100 million ? I know with Roush and Penske it's some ungodly number, where they have 200 guys working in the shop.

 

That is basically what it boils down to. Pathetic isn't it?

Which is probably why they keep shifting the cut off date around. So right now everybody has a chance to get their engine in gear for the end of the year. In a way a team like Renault of Ferrari now have to make a decision: Do we focus on the car and winning the title or should we put all our effort into engine design so we can have success over the next three years?

 

Skru F1, bring back Can AM

 

And Group B.

In a society where dodgeball is banned from gym class, what hope do we have though for anyone doing anything that requires a set of balls. Oh no, someone might get hurt (or even die).