2008 Engine Freeze - Getting really ugly!

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This is the kind of rule that could destroy formula one IMO. Formula One is where the greatest technological developments in auto racing come from. So why is it that they keep creating rules to stop development? I just cant get my head around what they could possibly be thinking when they come up with this crap.
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http://Ferrari-Chat.blogspot.com

 

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They only stopped using turbos to slow the cars down. Force fed engines were for decades limited to half the displacement of the normally aspirated cars. The first Ferrari's of the 40's were supercharged 1500cc engines. Yet Ferrari moved back to normally aspirated because he found the blown engines to be less efficient, ie harder on fuel.

Before they banned the turbo cars, some like Honda and BMW were reporting (or it was being leaked) HP outputs exceeding 1200 HP and some claimed as much as 1500 HP or more. This from a 1.5 liter engine!

They played with the idea of reducing displacement to 1.2 liter, or even 1 liter, but some felt they would actually gain even more power. R&T had an article where they postulated a three cylinder 1.2 liter motor producing over 1500 HP just by simply having lower pumping losses and less friction from less moving parts. Also, the turbo technology was so advanced it kept the teams with lower budgets from being able to compete.

But I do not feel some of these rules being postulated today have any place in F1. F1 should be first a technical sport, to try new technologies and push the envelope of speed and endurance, not be a pony ride for spectators. There should be no limits on numbers of cylinders, or any constraint whatsoever on engine design. This only stifles advancement of technology. Even the rule of penalty for not running last weeks engine is stifling.

I would like to see a new grand prix series started and see Ferrari move with it. A series without aero downforce, or at least severly limited. Exposed engines for all the world to see. A lower engine size of perhaps 2 liters. I believe that current technology of engine design would allow a 2 liter to make more power today than a 3 liter produced in the late 50's or early 60's. If a current 3 liter is making 800 plus a 2 liter should make upwards of 540. Without aero drag top speeds should be higher, and cornering speeds will be lower. No radios, no two way cockpit communications, no telemetry feedback, only leader boards. No onboard driver, or pit controled electronics to alter performance, only mechanical adjusments of brake bias and sway bar. I would also like to see them get rid of pace cars and yellow flags as well, or, not count laps during yellow flags. Watching a race end on a yellow is just nuts. I also think they should run double the laps they run currently because they run so much faster than 75 years ago.

 

Your post started out sounding pretty good, but you say you want to let technology run free, but then talk of limiting all the technology the crew uses on the car during the race. If you want to see F1 advancing, the radio's and telemetry data come with the terriroty.

 

Brian Hart could never make his turbo last, but it was small and lightweight.
BMW was rumored to be around 1280HP, I remember reading somewhere that if (when) the turbo went out on the BMW, that the motor sans turbo was only 91 horse. You also have to remember these turbo motors ran on rocket fuel, not 104 octane pump gas.

I believe Renault brought turbo back in, BMW made it fast, TAG made it last, then Honda did all of the above.
I just liked the turbos because a) they were bloody fast, but mainly: b) they were QUIET. I just don't much care for 19,000 RpM motorcycle engines in CARS. Or so it seems.

 

If they go for a spec engine, can we vote for the Daytona V12? Roargasm.

(But then we'd really want to shoot the mouthy commentators. )

 

A little more to the engine freeze story...

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=28999

This is the latest, but lets see what they change tomorrow.

Mark

 

A little off-topic perhaps, but am I the only one who's ever wondered how fast modern F1 cars could be without all these restrictions?

 

Bonneville

 

I don't have the clout to mix it up in this discussion, but I agree the freeze is idiotic. There are already numerous series that use limiting rules to reduce budgets and make the driver skill more of a factor. F1 is supposed to be about showing off your technical prowess, to hell with the budget. Beyond specifying the general car layout and dimensions, driver safety really should be the only limit. I wish they specifed much less about the engine type. I would much rather see a pure displacement limit than forcing a V8 vs V10 vs V12.

 

The Rules

Section iii is the kicker. This is where the development will take place and is what F1 has been lacking. Is Formula1 the Pinnacle of motorsport with regard to technology? Hardly. Not for a long time at least. As the world has been changing and moving forward F1 has been stuck in the past. You'll see teams in the future working on harnessing all of that wasted energy being produced by the brakes. You'll see hybrid systems. Better, lighter, longer life batteries maybe? You'll finally get to see what some say are the best automotive engineers applying their brains to systems that might actually make it to a road car and benefit our lives. The car companies have either been building (Toyota, Honda) cars for the new world order or have plans to. We might actually get back to the "Race on Sunday sell on Monday" marketing of old.

As for the individual who doesn't want to see a bunch of Prius racing around a track well, too bad. The world's moved on without you. Stick your head in the sand all you want. F1 should be about technology and the future of automotive technology is in reusable and economic energy. The world has moved forward and F1 should be leading the way not following way behind.

My .02

*edit* This is the future: http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/volta.html

 

So I get to enjoy F1 for two more years before it is the final curtain call.

 

The Prius is garbage. If they want to move forward and not become retarded with this new "technology," use methanol, not batteries.

 

Right on.

Actually I don't expect a bunch of Prius or other hybrid crap running around in F1 anytime soon. I rather see iii) in the sense that systems, which currently deduct power from the engine will be powered by batteries fed by the brakes. So the cars will remain powered by a proper fuel burning engine while subsystems (eg. hydraulics) might be powered by electric components for some duration.

 

And you can buy methanol were in the US or the world? Simply changing the fuel used doesn't address the fact that F1 is falling far behind series such as LeMans/American LeMans. The inclusion of diesel power plants within that series has allowed Audi to showcase its technical prowess for technology that it believes is the future. Diesel cars are widely available and are being touted by European manufacturers as a better alternative to hybrid technology. Audi can use the series to help sell its cars already in the showroom and that's a better return on investment for Audi.

F1 needs to get with the program. I'm more interested in LeMans/ALMS from a technological standpoint than F1 at the moment. If I want to watch old technology I'll watch old F1 races. The technology involved in a car from 1996 is not too different from 2006. But, a car from 1996 compared to 1986 is incredibly different. F1 has lost its technological edge. Just because you say it's the panicle of motorsport technology doesn't make it so.

 

I never downplayed Audi's R&D for LeMans. I think it was a very cool idea and they made it work.

Which type of diesel are you referring to? The one that is petrol based or bio diesel? I do agree that bio diesel, as well as methonal production, is the best idea as of now to get away from petroleum. I don't like the Prius because 1) battery technology will not improve much 2) it's very expensive to manufacturer and dispose of batteries 3) have fun in a car crash

The only idea I like about the Prius is the energy being converted from kinetic and thermal to stored while braking. I have to give them credit for that because that is a pretty good idea.

As far as where you can buy methanol, the same can apply to bio diesel. Where will I find that in the US? Oh yea, the only option I have is petrol based diesel and that is pretty hard to find in my area, too. Maybe only 1/3 of the stations here have diesel.

The solution to using other types of fuel can't be solved overnight. It's not something that exists in common places here and now. If that was the case, methanol and bio diesel would be used right now more than gasoline if it was as easily found as gasoline at the gas pump. Phasing out gasoline in favor of other types of fuels will take YEARS if not decades. There's no reason to turn down the idea of methonal simply because there arne't any stations that already support it. Give it some time...

 

This article, old as it is, might explain some of the decisions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2004/03/20/smmott20.xml