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2009 F430 Challenge car

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars' started by Christopher Winfield, Dec 3, 2009.

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  2. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    "Approxiamately 100 hrs on engine."

    And it says never raced, never tracked...Display and exhibition only.

    How ?

    100 Hrs is a lot of parade lap or driving around display fields.

    How much is a new Challenge car ?
     
  3. goober

    goober F1 World Champ

    Nov 15, 2004
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    correct, 100 hours of idling or parade laps sounds huge. Dont know the cost of a new one, but I reckon they were the same as the road car, but dont quote me on it.
     
  4. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
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    Mar 16, 2003
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    #4 WCH, Dec 3, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
    The factory invoice for an '09 car (US) was $245k.

    I also wondered about the 100 hours.

    The car looks fantastic in black IMO.

    Wonder if the license plate comes with the car?
     
  5. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
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    75 hours is a good number to start thinking about freshening the engine on a 430CH. A challenge weekend is generally 2-4 45-60 minute practice sessions, 2 qualifying sessions (say 30 mins of running) and 2 45 minute races. So being conservative, lets call that 6 hours of engine use per race weekend. 7 weekends per season. Lets say another 5 random practice days with a couple of hours of running 100 hours is still 2 challenge seasons worth of use.

    No way its just idling and random shows.
     
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  7. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Is this ad a flat out lie as how can it have 100 hours in 1 year having never touched a track? Maybe they meant 10 hours?
     
  8. PaulC

    PaulC Formula 3

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    it is not a lie. I know the the owner and the car.
     
  9. Christopher Winfield

    Nov 12, 2003
    125
    #8 Christopher Winfield, Dec 3, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
    Sorry guys... It was just a best guess based on the information that was provided to me by the owner. I need to take it to FOH and have them give me the exact number. It has never been raced but it has been driven on the street to events. I wasnt aware that this would cause such a controversy. I will update this next week. I was thinking how long it would take to drive from where the car is kept to the various events and "sunday" drives which would include idling around town. (wow Rob, harsh eh..."outright lie", honest error really....maybe PM me next time to explain...jeez)

    Christopher
     
  10. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
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    Can you read engine hours, or just km?

    Anyway ... again .. the car looks great in black!
     
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  12. goober

    goober F1 World Champ

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    how is it legally driven on the roads?
     
  13. Christopher Winfield

    Nov 12, 2003
    125
  14. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #12 rob lay, Dec 4, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
    not at all, don't post an ad with questionable information if you don't want questions. a non-street legal 430 Challenge with 100 hours that has never been tracked doesn't make sense unless it was driven on the street or it actually was tracked. I think we have our answer and I bet engine is less than 100 hours too. That would be 4k miles at minimum?

    Christopher, do you work for Ferrari of Houston? If not, who do you work for?
     
  15. Matthias Urban

    Matthias Urban F1 Veteran

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    Christopher,

    any chance to share the VIN?

    Best

    Matthias
     
  16. Christopher Winfield

    Nov 12, 2003
    125
    Challenge cars do not have VIN numbers. Rob, I dont work for FOH. I am self employed but selling it for a friend. I can only tell you that the car has not been tracked and you are welcome to look at it, have FOH download whatever information you would like and examine the car. This car has no stories. I should have put more thought into the hours, but now I will take the car to FOH and give you an accurate accounting of the hours. Hopefully you will be ready to purchase the car at that time....ha ha.

    And since we seemingly have a lot of experts here.... assuming that I am not lying, misleading or otherwise misrepresenting for the purpose of financial gain.... does 225K sound like correct pricing?

    Christopher

    P.S. I am selling this car for a friend and doing it for free so please forgive my error.
     
  17. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Black 430Challenges Rock!

    They do have VINs

    Mark
     
  18. scottypoz

    scottypoz Karting

    May 8, 2006
    54
    challenge cars do have vins or numbers of some sort
     
  19. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #17 johnhoughtaling, Dec 4, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
    Rob

    chris didnot say he didn't want questions. He invited them. He said you were harsh and I agree.

    Moderator or not, attacking a good longtime fellow contributor WAS harsh. You were quick to strike out will an allegation of a lie. If you had a question you could have asked. Alledging a lie is different than asking a question.

    So I don't agree with you that you were justfied. For your information the car has not been on the track, even with those hours.

    Have we lost civility with each other?
     
  20. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    But chris, 225? You must be lying! Seriously that is too much. Maybe 200-210
     
  21. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    maybe seems harsh if you have a vested interest, which is only a couple people here. when you post an ad, especially with all the puffed and misleading ads then the hundreds of onlookers that deserve accurate answers outweighs a seller getting their feelings hurt. if you can't stomach selling a quarter million dollar Ferrari, then don't.
     
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    This car has the non-track use and no damage going for it. Also a pretty car in black.

    If anywhere close to 100 hours that were only street idling, then that would detract from the value.

    I believe the average 430 Challenge has been selling for $120-140k. That seems about right as typically Challenge cars sell for a tad less than their comparative street cars. 430 Coupes are dime a dozen now at $140k. 360 Challenge cars are about $10-20k less than the street 360's.

    Once you start getting above $150k I think someone would want a real 360 GT race car with history. That is rare, historic, and subject to possible appreciation. A 430 Challenge is only going to depreciate for another 5 years or so.
     
  23. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
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    Rob - I think you are low on your CH values yet. 160-180 is where they've been selling this summer.
     
  24. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
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    #22 WCH, Dec 4, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
    430 Challenge cars have VIN numbers.

    Chris, if your client is not in a hurry to sell, I'd hold out for what the non-buyers here say is a high price. The 430C can be used in a number of interesting US venues in 2010 - the Challenge series, SCCA, NASA, the new informal series for "retired" Challenge cars, track days of all kinds ... and no doubt others. "Your" car looks fantastic, and that will help! How is the interior/driver's side by the way; I wanted pics of the driver's seat surface and driver footwell, the appearance of both of which might suggest the amount of use. If I were interested in the car, I'd have the engine checked, no matter what you told me.

    Get the mileage from the car (I assume it can be downloaded) and publish it. If the car has been driven on the street, just say so - who cares about legality? As you know, there are some buyers who just have to have a fresh car - I no doubt overpaid for my 430C because I'm often one of those buyers. There will be fewer and fewer fresh 430Cs as time passes.
     
  25. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #23 johnhoughtaling, Dec 4, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
    Rob

    I have no I interest in anything here except a lack of civility from the moderator to a fellow contributor. My feelings are not hurt. Just observing someone being rude. It's a shame you can't acknowledge.
     
  26. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

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    #24 cwwhk, Dec 4, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
    There is only one year left for 430C in the Challenge series before 458C comes out. $225K at close to new price is going to be a very very tough sell. As someone else correctly pointed out Challenge cars have historically sold for much less than street going versions. So current 430 sale prices should give you a good idea on what a 430C is worth.

    Now a days with the economy the way it is, you can buy 430GT3 for close to your $225 asking price, so why would any one be motivated to buy your friend's 430C?
     
  27. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #25 johnhoughtaling, Dec 4, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
    And you didn't ask a question Rob. You called Chris a liar.
     

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