2009 Jenson Button Crow Eating Awards

For many reasons this is a season for the history books.
No offense intended Mike. Just a lttle hurt that I missed out on the crow fest

 

Although Button is the man of the moment, that does not anoint greatness. He was an average driver, with a below average career until this season. Many others did that. Hakkinen, Mansell, J. Villeneuve, D. Hill. They all won in the best car, which is what you are supposed to do. Button is talented. Not the most talented, but better than most on the grid. He has THE car this season. He will win with it, and I will be happy for him. But that alone will not elevate him to elite driver level.

 

Although SRT Mike was polite enough not to single me out, let me admit my mistakes etc:

Early on when Button started I saw in him the next Messiah. In fact to this day I have a picture of him in my office. Not that I was a fan of him, but thouroughly impressed.

Then he made one bad career move after another and I lost interest in him. However when he won in Hungary in the rain where so many others made horrible mistakes, I knew again, that he had the talent to be a great driver, but not necessarily to pick the right team.

I really thought that his career was over when Honda pulled out and was totally surprised and happy to see Brawn carry on.

So now that he is in the best car, we finally get to see the Button from the beginning of his career and from Hungary again: The guy is a super talented driver, no doubt. Not a Schumacher, who can build a team around him, not a Vettel who drives a POS to victory, but an Alonso in the rain and a Senna in a TAG-McLaren.

So hand me my plate of crow for being a doubting Thomas in all the years in between.

 

Huh? You are comparing Button in the Brawn to Senna in a TAG-McLaren? Are you joking? Lest we forget that before we saw Senna in the McLaren, we saw him prove himself in a POS Toleman, then a slightly better POS Lotus. He overcame the immense shortcomings of both of these cars, and his brilliance showed through. Button in Hungary does not compare to the seasons that Senna drove the Lotus and Toleman.

 

Dan,

I actually think that Senna's best driving was in the 1993 McLaren Ford MP4-8, as that car didn't have the aero of the Williams FW-15 nor the power of the Renault V10, yet Senna won 5 races and finished second that season to Prost. Who can forget the Donnington Race as well, I agree that you cannot compare Button to Senna in the McLaren. IMHO, Button now has the equivalent of the 1992 Williams that Mansell had and is doing the most with it.

 

Agreed.

I was just comparing the days prior to both drivers in dominant cars. Certainly, Senna in that McLaren Ford was absolutely incredible.

 

You didn't get my point, let me try again:

Button is driving superbly in the superb Brawn. Better than Barrichello for instance. In that way I compared him to Senna in the McLaren. And as I pointed out in my thread, he (Button) is not capable of doing wonders in a POS (like Senna or Vettel), nor of developing a POS into a front runner (like MS or Alonso).
That was no disrespect to Senna. I merely made the point, that Button is driving perfectly in a perfect car. No small feat. Only in that sense he compares to the best, but he lacks all the other stuff. Better now?

 

...sure he does...

 

Mate, why can't you understand my points!. I'm actually on the drivers side, yep even your heros!!. Can you not see the harm that has come to your heros career by peaking too soon, by not being allowed to learn the ropes. We watched it happen with a very talented Jensen Button in the Williams, too good too soon and the press (YOUR press) were all over him.

Both JB and your hero had nowhere to go but down, and JB has been down for ages. If Brawn had not come along to save the day JB's career was over. Would not have matted at all how good JB was, it was OVER!.

Again if your hero was made number 2 at McLaren he would have learnt MORE than he did by grabbing an easy championship. He would have learnt from Alonso how to setup and develop a car ... but instead he learnt nothing because everybody around him kept telling him he had nothing to learn. Now he is in the ****. Can you see my point now? It is BAD for any drivers career to be put in the best car, their level of self improvement slows or stops ... hardly good for the future of their career is it.

If McLaren don't happen to make a good car soon, your heros career is in as much trouble as JB's career was.

And sorry guys I still don't rate JB as top rate, but at the same level as Damon Hill, who is a WDC an all, but that does not mean he is the best driver on the grid, but simply the best driver in the team that had the best car ... just like Jensen is now.

Remember boys, in the modern form of the joke called F1, the car is atleast 80% of the deal. Anybody in that Brawn F1 car would be winning, even RB has looked competitive again. Thus put Webber in Jensen's car and he would be leading the WDC, because Webber is faster than RB. Please note I am not at all saying Webber is the next MS ... but simply a good solid driver.

Please also realise that Ross Brawn has to keep his drivers pumped, thus all this talk about Jensen being like MS is simply to keep the confidence right up because a confident driver is way faster than a doubting driver ... witness RB.

The ONLY way to judge a drivers ability is in a weak car ... Jensen and your hero perform below par in a weak car, but yes better than their team mates, but not at a Moss, Stewart, GV or a MS level.
Pete
ps: Thank God not all British people are unable to understand simple concepts like this. Moss in particular knew that learning was vital to HIS improvement and thus was happy to play number 2 to Fangio and no matter how much teasing I have at the British , Stirling Moss is still arguably the very best driver that has ever driven a race car, with a win rate that is amazing even if you take every single race he started (won 25%)!@!

Stewart also is about learning. My father has a wonderful book written by him that really should be read by all budding sportspeople.

Handouts don't teach people anything ... and we can see that your hero, while still a great driver, has little experience to dig into to find the way forward, and why he is snapping at people around him. Very sad and I feel for him. I wouldn't put my son in that position ... it is so not about the $'s.

 

+1

Finally somebody with the ability to think has posted .
Pete
ps: I will also be happy for JB, as I was for Damon Hill and Mansell, etc.

 

Got it, I misread it as well.

 

I took a shot at Button a few weeks ago believing that he has been an over rated, underachiever for the past few years that never lived up to the hype surrounding him. Can't argue with his success of late so I will eat my share of Crow.

My kind of Crow

Cheers-Colin Firth-Ontario Canada
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Very funny and clever, which is about all I can safely say without getting into trouble with a double entendre...

 

Hmmm...

I think my post still stands... He's now got the class car of the field...

I'm still not sure he's any better than average... is he better than fernando, lewis, nico, vettel, webber, kovalinen, kimi, felipe, or even reubens? I don't know...

if on pure skill he's not in the top 5, he's still an average F1 driver...

But, since he's doing better than I ever imagined, I'll have a plate.

Can I have mine in sweet and sour sauce please?

 

Where is that guy? I was hoping for another $10k bet this season.

 

I've always thought Button could do well with a car that dominates the competition. Rubens isn't someone I rate highly so I don't know why I'd start putting Button on some high level.

 

We understand your points perfectly well, we just don't agree with you.

 

lmfao seriously

 

Fair enough .

You guys can continue thinking JB is a super star, and ignore the fact that the car is doing all the work if you want ... being better than RB is hardly that impressive.
Pete

 

I stand by my original comments and will not eat crow. Villeneuve probably had a shot at his second title if he was given the ride. I think he still sucks, too. Every now and then, the right chassis comes along and nothing else can touch it. Button just got lucky.

 

...sure...anyone could drive one of these things....even you. How difficult could it be? I really enjoy these armchair warriors commenting on how someone as sublimely talented as JB has 'got lucky'. Jackie Stewart commented back in 2001 that JB was one of the smoothest and most promising drivers he had ever seen. But then again, what would JS know...

 

If JB had a passport issued by any other country, a 10 quid note says that JS would have said otherwise.

 

Everything you have just said about JB is how you define a mediocre talent (at F1 level of course).

What you guys are forgetting is:
1. RB is way passed it
2. The Brawn car also has highlighted how lost Honda were with their engine. RB and JB have been quoting to anybody that will listen that the Merc engine is so much more driveable ... thus a lot/some of the praise has to go to the Merc engine.
3. A good car is very, very easy to drive and makes you look good. It is that dog of a car that takes talent to drive ... thus just about every driver on the F1 grid would look good in the Brawn. All this means is JB is in the right place at the right time and has average F1 driver ability.

Look at how few mistakes Webber is making this season ... because he is in a much better car. Before he was trying to perform miracles in a poor car and thus mistakes occurred. Now he is looking much more consistent, not at all a super star but consistent. JB was not even prepared or able to push a car that hard so thus puttered around the back of the field ... Webber to his credit went out their and drove the snot out of it, but most of the time ended up in the kitty litter
Pete