Michael..... I know all that and it is irrelevant. You've totally missed the point.....$20K (up here in Canada) for the X50's lousy 50 HP increase is a waste of money. $13K for brake rotors that failed prematurely on the first generation setup and cost $40K to replace, is waste of money for the nominal weight saving. If Porsche gave us what we deserved for the money we've spent, there would be no aftermarket. Doesn't matter if it is a turbocharged engine or not. Ever heard of the X51 package for their NA engines ? It's the same principle and it debunks that argument as well. The GT2 is not 650 HP, nor is it 500 pounds lighter, and it is not significantly different than the 997 TT looks wise either........for the money. Look at how the used car market prices their "halo" cars........that just confirms what I am saying. Unfortunately........I still love 'em to death......but I'd never buy a new one even if I had Bill Gates bankroll. Lightguy..... Depends on who/what you read in regards to the transaxle I guess. I was referring to very early sales literature that I had read. Personally, I, like you, think it is the same gearbox bits internally, but maybe with a few different part numbers. They are famous for pulling that trick too.......I spent 100K a year on Porsche parts for 5 years straight when had my company.......bought OEM and from aftermarket suppliers........it was a "very" interesting eye opening experience.
What he said. I have a lot of respect for the older Ferraris simply because if you bought, say, a Boxer, you got the best Ferrari could do at the moment. Or a 328. Or a 512 TR. They weren't holding anything back. Porsche didn't used to be so bad. In the early days of the 911, you either got the base or the 'S'. Then it was the 'T', the 'E' and the 'S', I believe, and if you wanted a sports car you went for the 'S'. Now normal Porsche 996s are getting to be bottom-feeder cars simply because you have 11 or 14 other variants that are better. And, it's happening all over again with the 997s, including the Sport Classic edition with the ducktail spoiler. Because there are probably thousands of different color combinations per model per package group, Porsche gets to sell thousands of 911s with most of them somehow being "rare". ("I got one of only two yellow GT2s imported into the States with aluminum-look trim on the handbrake!") Even the Boxster has three versions -- expensive base, more expensive S, most expensive Spyder. And there was an RS commemorative version with dark paint around the windscreen and some kind of badge...
This is my first Post on F Chat been looking at he site for the past few months have not posted but trying to do research for up coming purchase. I have always wanted a Ferrari since High school in the late 70's after many years of hard work I was ready to jump in both feet in a Ferrari Purchase. My main problem is that I live near Memphis Tn nearest Ferrari Dealer is Atlanta and no specialist in Memphis or within a few hundred miles of Memphis. So I settled bought a New 2009 Targa 4S 6 speed. Well needless to say I was very unimpressed with the Targa on preformance and sound. More on sound car is fast but doesnt have a wow factor. So I started my research in Ferrari and a Turbo Porsche. I ruled out Ferrari didnt want to have to bring car to Atlanta for service just didnt think that would go in to my timeline of my time that I have for the car. Even though my heart still wants the Ferrari. I went out and test drove a 2010 Turbo that got my heart pumping loved the PDK. Car had power I was wanting but still doesnt have the sound ,but way better than my Targa 4S with stock exhaust. I want to build the car to suit me I will be driving apprx 5K per year just a weekend Toy. I do want it with all of the options that are coming on the Turbo S So when I was told no more 2010 Turbo only the S I thought even better little more Hp same money my only downfall is the Interior Color. I want the Ext. Color to match my Targa Malchite Green. But other than that It is bascially what I want and will end up being about 1K less if the 159K US price is true. I will be trading the Targa or selling . Does anyone have any advise for me. Am I giving up on Ferrari does anyone have near the same mileage to take car to get serviced. I really want be tracking car just a weekend drive in the car suits me at this time. Gj
The first Ferrari I looked at before buying was a 328 owned by a guy in Albuquerque, NM, who drove or shipped it to Ferrari of Denver for servicing. Exotic cars are like that -- you don't have a Ferrari, Aston Martin, Lambo or Lotus dealer in every city. You could post in the TN regional section and see what independent Ferrari techs are near you. Unless the car is fairly new, a lot of owners use independent mechanics instead of the dealer. (Even the serious money Ferraris -- meaning vintage/classic cars -- go to several independents around here in San Diego...) As far as advice on selling your Targa, if you bought new you will probably not be happy with the market value. New Ferraris depreciate even worse, so I would say a used F430 (modern) or 328 (classic) is going to be a smarter purchase than another new car.
Now that's some faulty advertising. I got my info from the Porsche order guide, but upon further investigation in PET, it looks like the the X50 gets a different clutch plate part number (as well as engine oil pump part number). I apologize, I thought the topic was about the Turbo S, which used the 996 flavor as an example of price gouging. As far as $17.5k for a lousy 29hp increase, there are other considerations. The Turbo S does receive a healthy increase in tq, about 42lb-ft in the mid-range. My GIAC tune will eat a Turbo S, but it is not as driveable as a Turbo S. In my car, the power is not progressive and smooth. Also consider the sandbox that the engineers have to play with... emissions, fuel economy, noise level, region, climate, etc. I'd say aftermarket tuners have a bit more leighway in that regard. Is that $17.5k worth it or not worth it, that is up to the buyer. But, again, as far as I know, the Turbo S only came in 2005 and it was the only Turbo you can buy. I'm guessing the 997 Turbo S is the last year "grand finale" for the Turbo before the 998 Turbo rolls in. 2005 Turbo S have the Gen-2 if memory serves me correctly. You realize your arguments also apply to Ferrari (and Lamborghini)... 360 CS, 430 Scud. Besides, is there an aftermarket kit right now that is similar to the X51 -- cams, intake manifold, headers, ECU, etc.? I will clarify. It has a significant increase in power and weight reduction (at least the 997 flavor). As far as looks, a person not into cars will not be able to tell a difference, much like the difference between a 360/360CS, or 430/430 Scud. ///Michael
Dep. is a bummer but I have already came to terms on that part of deal. I will be looking at a used Ferrari if I go the Fcar way my thought was a F430 or 612 Could easily get in a very low milage car for same price as the 2011 Turbo S just not sure on where to get serviced other than Ferrari of Atlanta. I have been reading lots of post with great praise for FOA but the almost 940 mile round trip for service is a bummer. I will post in Tn area see what that brings Thanks for your input. Gj
Of course, there is a (small) benefit from the 'halo' cars -- they help push the 'regular', 'bottom-feeder' cars downward on the depreciation curve a little faster. For me anyway, the plain-ol, non-bespoilered, non-super-flared 996/997 is a great thing. It's almost understated, and _way_ more car than I can use on 99% of my driving days. So if it gets cheaper faster, I'm all for it! (Not that it'll ever get really cheap, but every bit helps)
Porsche has played the same game for decades, it under estimates the real performance figures on purpose, When the Mags get it , it will be the first production 911 to break the 3 sec. to 60 mark.. For Sure
I have the latest car and driver in front of me. There is a comparison between the ZR1 and the 500 hp Turbo (non S), the Porsche's 0-60 time is 2.9 seconds, I repeat, two point nine seconds!!!!! Wow!
I read the C and D article too. Amazing 0-60 2.9 sec. and the 50-70 mph passing speeds even more mind blowing. This is for the 'non-S' version. According to my dealer the standard 2011 tt will have body changes/prob significant for the rear end. Is this now a better car, especially with the dealer close and a 4/50 warranty, for the same bucks as a used F430? Jim
I don't see any price gouging on the "S" versus regular turbo. If anything,you get the additional power and torque as a bonus ,since when you add all the options (standard on S) you end up at the same price point on both models. Considering the performance of the turbo and the potential of the S, I think that car is a great value and I am strongly considering it for a daily.
Hi Mark..... Disclaimer......I haven't seen CAD prices yet. Thing is though, even if I had seen those prices, while the now standard former options on the "S" may add up to the difference, for me it comes down to are they "worth the money" when compared to aftermarket mods, to use just one example here, that can give you more power, and for less cash, etc ? That is where I am their implying price gouging comes into play. Both markets have the same economies of scale working for them.......the factory, for it builds the specific number of cars each year, and the aftermarket, for it creates the mods for said specific number of cars.
The 2005 Turbo S cars bring 65-75k depending on coupe/cabrio miles. The non S 2005 Turbos bring 7-10k less. Obviously people believe the S cars may be highly collectible down the road and are willing to pay more $.
The Turbo S has every option I wanted on a 2010 standard Turbo... and an extra 30hp and full-time 516 flbs...for $1,000/more than the fully optioned TT. I will pick it up at Stuttgart and be on the Nurburgring within three days of arrival at Frankfurt so I'm rested from the flight over. After driving it to Austria and Switzerland I'll return it to Stuttgart and possibly have the factory Special Order Department modify a few things that I decide from the driving I want changed.
