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2011 GP of Japan -Race - *Spoilers*

Discussion in 'F1' started by Korr, Oct 9, 2011.

  1. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    6,503
    I´m not a big fan of Hamilton, but he´s been faster than Button for almost all the season. OK, he had a few brain fades, but he also suffered a few errors from the pit wall and often got caught in traffic.

    Hamilton is young: he still can get wiser. But I doubt that Button can get faster at his age.
     
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  3. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    On the bright side Webber didn't blow the start :D
     
  4. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

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    Well, he started last of the top teams anyway, right? :eek:
     
  5. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Mr glass half full :)
     
  6. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Well,

    Not meaning to sound too acidic here,

    But you were the same guy saying RBR should have let Webber go for it last year, which would have cost RBR a WDC.

    And that Button was washed up.

    So that is two major calls you were on the wrong side of.

    Thus it would seem that if you think Lewis is washed up and "over", it means he will have a great year next year.

    F1 fans are the most fickle I have ever seen. Ferrari has 2 bad races and it's time for them to call the season over (last year - when Alonso very nearly won the WDC). And so many more examples.
     
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  8. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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    Oct 1, 2008
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    Andrew
    Button is immensely quick during a race. Let's look at a direct comparison between Hamilton and Button:


    Qualifying (Grid Position): red highlight indicates pole position
    Button's victories over Hamilton: 5
    Hamilton's victories over Button: 10

    Australia:
    Button: 4
    Hamilton: 2

    Malaysia:
    Button: 4
    Hamilton: 2

    China:
    Button: 2
    Hamilton: 3​

    Turkey:
    Button: 6
    Hamilton: 4

    Spain:
    Button: 5
    Hamilton: 3

    Monaco:
    Button: 2
    Hamilton: 9 (no time in Q3)​

    Canada:
    Button: 7
    Hamilton: 5

    Europe:
    Button: 6
    Hamilton: 3

    Great Britain:
    Button: 4
    Hamilton: 10​

    Germany:
    Button: 7
    Hamilton: 2

    Hungary:
    Button: 3
    Hamilton: 2

    Belgium:
    Button: 13
    Hamilton: 2

    Italy:
    Button: 3
    Hamilton: 2

    Singapore:
    Button: 3
    Hamilton: 4​

    Japan:
    Button: 2
    Hamilton: 3​



    Fastest Racing Laps: red highlight indicates fastest lap of anyone
    Button's victories over Hamilton: 8
    Hamilton's victories over Button: 7​

    Australia:
    Button: 1:29.883
    Hamilton: 1:30.314​

    Malaysia:
    Button: 1:41.264
    Hamilton: 1:41.512​

    China:
    Button: 1:40.623
    Hamilton: 1:40.415

    Turkey:
    Button: 1:31.167
    Hamilton: 1:30.108

    Spain:
    Button: 1:27.518
    Hamilton: 1:26.727

    Monaco:
    Button: 1:16.463
    Hamilton: 1:17.847​

    Canada:
    Button: 1:16.956
    Hamilton: 1:37.761​

    Europe:
    Button: 1:42.340
    Hamilton: 1:42.947​

    Great Britain:
    Button: 1:36.982
    Hamilton: 1:36.180

    Germany:
    Button: 1:36.258
    Hamilton: 1:34.302

    Hungary:
    Button: 1:23.937
    Hamilton: 1:23.661

    Belgium:
    Button: 1:50.062
    Hamilton: 1:55.647​

    Italy:
    Button: 1:26.207
    Hamilton: 1:26.187

    Singapore:
    Button: 1:48.454
    Hamilton: 1:50.832​

    Japan:
    Button: 1:36.568
    Hamilton: 1:37.645​



    Results (Points): red highlight indicates race victory
    Button's season points: 210 (finishing ahead of Hamilton 8 times)
    Hamilton's season points: 178 (finishing ahead of Button 7 times)​

    Australia:
    Button: 8
    Hamilton: 18

    Malaysia:
    Button: 18
    Hamilton: 4​

    China:
    Button: 12
    Hamilton: 25

    Turkey:
    Button: 8
    Hamilton: 12

    Spain:
    Button: 15
    Hamilton: 18

    Monaco:
    Button: 15
    Hamilton: 8​

    Canada:
    Button: 25
    Hamilton: 0 (accident)​

    Europe:
    Button: 8
    Hamilton: 12

    Great Britain:
    Button: 0 (wheel nut)
    Hamilton: 12

    Germany:
    Button: 0 (hydraulics)
    Hamilton: 25

    Hungary:
    Button: 25
    Hamilton: 12​

    Belgium:
    Button: 15
    Hamilton: 0 (accident)​

    Italy:
    Button: 18
    Hamilton: 12​

    Singapore:
    Button: 18
    Hamilton: 10​

    Japan:
    Button: 25
    Hamilton: 10​



    It seems to me that, while Hamilton is the better qualifier, Button is actually faster than Hamilton during a race and also avoids collisions to maximising his points.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  9. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    Jensen is a very smart driver. He never seems to go any faster than necessary. Never takes foolish chances and is usually there at the finish to collect the points.
    Best of all he seems to be the only driver who seems to be enjoying himself.
    A relatively well adjusted adult getting results. Who knew that could work? ;)
     
  10. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    Sir Jackie Stewart?
     
  11. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Alain Prost?
     
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  13. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    +1

    "They should start work on next years car by about the 3rd race if they're not winning!"
    .
    "Aldo / Stefano / Fred / Phil / <your fall guy here> should all be fired!"
    .
    On & on it goes - F1 is cyclical, always has been and always will be. Nobody wins forever.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  14. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    :eek: Nah!..... He was very, very rarely what I'd call "a happy gentleman". Moody, miserable and often pissed off is closer to the truth as I recall......

    Plus, he's French! :)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  15. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes but...

    The demands on a drivers sanity are higher these days.
     
  16. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    I don't know - remember that Stewart was both winning a championship and unpopularly campaigning (almost single handedly) for driver safety...while watching practically his best friend Jochaim Rindt really pointlessly die at the wheel of an F1 car.

    He opens up about it quite candidly in his auto-biography "Faster".
     
  17. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

    Apr 12, 2005
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    #239 ricksb, Oct 10, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
    It seems like they're pretty evenly matched overall. Hamilton has had a bad stretch since Monaco, but he's still actually fared better than I remember. The last 5 races he's had some sort of collision (usually with Massa) which has impacted his results also. The fastest lap deal is a little misleading as it probably shows that Button takes better care of his tires towards the end of a race (which we all know anyway)

    I still think that Hamilton was pressing too much this season and got himself bent out of shape and wasn't able to recover.

    The other thing your table shows is that you don't necessarily need to qualify on front row to maximize point....I think that's been clear with Button all season, especially in changing conditions or safety car situations.
     
  18. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    He's always been a bit of hero to me. Both on and off track.
    Still you can't compare today's F1 and it's " distractions" with his day.
     
  19. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    Yeah - just like professional golf, I guess - Tiger Woods versus Arnold Palmer.
     
  20. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
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    For some reason, i think Jense has won the battle between himself and Lewis this year. I think Lewis has cracked. Sometimes, i feel pity for Lewis, but sometimes, i just feel like he's arrogant. The accidents he causes are always, in most cases, avoidable. He could have easily won the race, but just like what he did at Spa, he causes a totally unnecessary accident.

    Having said that, i'm rooting for Jense on this. Anyways, congrats to Baby Schumi, and also i hope Ferrari will be picking up on this for next year. I think Fred drove a solid race, and got the car as far as it could go.
     
  21. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    +1

    John Mcenroe -v- Roger Federer. The equipment, training, diet etc etc are all so different now.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  22. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Not to mention the occasional flying frankfurter!
     
  23. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Mac may not be the best example of the genteel days ;)
     
  24. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Damnit Viz! Another keyboard with beer all over it :D
     
  25. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

    May 12, 2007
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    Steve
    Hahaha ..:)
     
  26. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Fair comment! Not my best example.

    How about Rod Laver? [He arrived off the banana boat from Aus and in the early days used to crash on an Uncles couch after they got drunk on many occasions! - He was apparently an awesome card player too.]

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  27. smart_alek

    smart_alek Formula Junior

    Jun 12, 2005
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    Alex
    At the end of the season, all that matters is the where they stand in the points, doesn't it?
    Unless you put an asterix beside Hamilton saying "he was faster than Jensen, but this and this and this happened"....
     
  28. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    Ian Anderson
    +1

    As of today;

    Jenson, 2nd with 210
    Lewis, 5th with 178

    Cheers,
    Ian
     

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