2013 engine rules; two contradicting views

F1 : Niki Lauda worried about sound of 2013 specification Formula 1 engines



http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26721:f1-niki-lauda-also-worried-about-2013-fia-formula-1-engine-specifications&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157



Austrian Niki Lauda has admitted he is concerned about the switch to four cylinder Formula One engines.

Not keen on the newly announced turbo formula for 2013, Ferrari President Luca di Montezemolo recently insisted that "for the top class of racing it sounds a bit pathetic".

Triple World Champion Lauda agrees: "I am worried about the sound, which in Formula One has been so unique.

"Hopefully there will be more than a faint hum," the Austrian told Bild am Sonntag newspaper.



Fernandes applauds 'green' engines



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88799


Team Lotus chief Tony Fernandes has hailed the 2013 engine regulations as a huge step forward for Formula 1's image.
The next generation rules will see the current V8s replaced by four-cylinder, 1.6-litre engines, with a reduction in fuel compensation and increased use of energy recovery systems designed to improve the sport's environmental credentials.
Fernandes believes the 2013 regulations go a long way to answering criticisms of F1's impact on the environment, and make the sport much more attractive to the road car industry.
"I think it is great news. I am so happy about it," he told AUTOSPORT. "We've now got the scenario of F1 being very relevant to the car industry but most importantly, F1 being very relevant to the environment.
"I always said that we have got some of the best brains in the sport in terms of engineers and technical people, and wouldn't it be great if they could use their brains to make the world a better place.
"The fact that we can reduce fuel consumption by 35 per cent is phenomenal, imagine if we could transfer that to every car out there - it would be 'wow'. That is a massive number.
"Imagine also with the usage of KERS, we are recovering one per cent at the moment but we could be up to 50 per cent in years to come.
"F1 becomes so relevant because everybody has a 1.6 engine. And costs go down and money goes into better uses than just making a car as fast as possible so I think it is fantastic, it is a really, really great step forward."
He called for additional rule changes to further increase F1's alignment with the car industry.
"I hope the next step is to make the wheels and tyres the same size as [road] cars so tyre manufacturers benefit from the safety that is learned, and engineering that can be put onto a 1.6-litre, Toyota, or Hyundai or Renault," said Fernandes.

 

I rarely say this, but I'm with Lauda...

 

+1
Sigh ... the race start will sound like this:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt9uPRRJRpU&feature=related[/ame]

 

The way I see it is even if this 4 cylinder thing goes through, within a season or two they will drop it due to negative feedback. I mean the FIA must know how important sound is to F1....I hope.

I know that with big boost, can come big power so the cars should be quick. I am just worried that all these aero add ons and things they want to add are not gonna make the cars look good. I miss the really good looking cars from the late 80's to mid 90's.

 

What is racing about other than going as fast as possible. Not really some one I would want heading up a race team.

I really don't see how this is going to help road cars. From my understanding the engine rule are as close to a spec engine as you can get. How would this help road cars if company's have to run with in the same specs.

I say give them a fuel load and let them design whats best for them. Less fuel efficient cars will need more fuel and be heavier. 8 cylinder cars may weigh more than 4 cylinder cars. Why not let manufactures mix it up and find what works best? Sounds cool to me!

 

It's not just the sound, it's as much the thought of a 4-cyl in an F1 car.

I am not sure I could watch F1 again if they make this step.

 

There have been 4 cyl engines in F1 before - turbo cars. They sounded just fine. THe issue will be the rev limits - if set too low, the sound will be just soooooo limp. Sound is a critical element of the F1 show.

 

Not for me it isn't !

 

This statement alone from Fernandes tells Me he should not be in F1:

"F1 becomes so relevant because everybody has a 1.6 engine".

Firstly, everybody has a 1.6 engine?, maybe where he lives, last time I looked under My bonnet (hood), there was a 2.8 litre straight six sitting there. I don't seem to remember many Ferrari 1.6's in the current Ferrari range either!.

Then we get:

"And costs go down and money goes into better uses than just making a car as fast as possible so I think it is fantastic, it is a really, really great step forward."

Whilst his own team have obviously not spent their money on making a car as fast as possible, it's actually the basic, prime objective of F1. He really needs to read up on his F1 history.

And to top it all off he says:

"I hope the next step is to make the wheels and tyres the same size as [road] cars so tyre manufacturers benefit from the safety that is learned, and engineering that can be put onto a 1.6-litre, Toyota, or Hyundai or Renault,"

In order to:

further increase F1's alignment with the car industry.

I really do feel he's got involved with the wrong division of motor racing!. Perhaps he should try Touring cars, rallying or something like Formula Renault!.

 

If I were in his shoes I'd like to see the rules shaken up as much as possible too

 

Perhaps his engineers have worked out that their cars performance is currently on a par with a 1.6 litre Renault hatchback!, now that could explain it!.

 

Only if the Renault runs on Derv.

 

So Fernandes is concerned about F1`s impact on the environment, this from someone who earns his money flying planes around the world..!!

Can someone point him and his team back down the grid to Formula Ford.

Regards,
Phil.

 

It's funny how many people here seem to have forgotten that the fastest, most powerful F1 cars EVER were... the 1.5 turbo 4 cylinder powered cars of the 1980s. Why exactly is it that you seem to think that returning to that configuration will suddenly result in disaster? (yes, I know the rules were 1.5 L, engine layout was open and V6s participated, but the most powerful engines were the BMW turbo 4 cylinders. ) And Niki is apparently going soft, as he was racing in that turbo era but seems to have forgotten what the cars sounded like...

Regarding Fernandes' comments - I don't see anything wrong with them. Who wouldn't like to see Honda, BMW, VW/Audi, back in F1 as engine suppliers? The more the merrier. As for tires - seriously, now people are trying to defend F1 using 13" tires, just to oppose Fernandes' statement? Sorry, but there has been many complaints about the ridiculously sized wheels used in F1 for 2 decades, and a move to 16" - 18" wheels would bring at least some semblance of relevance to what is supposed to be the premiere racing series, long after other racing series have caught up with the times. 13" wheels on F1 is like carburetors in NASCAR - simply ridiculous!

 

+1!

 

The issue isn't with the 4 cylinder formula. It is that it looks like they will limit revs. THAT will make them not sound good. In the early to mid 80's that wasn't an issue.

As for the wheels, F1 has been using small wheels/big tires for a long time. I really have no issue with it and think F1 cars with larger wheels might look odd since the cars are small.

 

Granted, the 80s turbo 4 cylinders weren't rpm limited by the rules - but they were rpm limited by the metallurgy of valve spring technology at the time. What were the max rpms then, 12K or 14K? It was only in the early 90s, IIRC, that the pneumatic valve springs were introduced, allowing the rev limits to soar (eventually reaching over 20K rpm). So for 2013, the regulation rev limit will be 12K... same as the technology rev limit was in the 80s!

Yes, F1 regs have restricted wheels to 13" since the early 70s - back when the Minis were on 10" wheels, and your average Toyota Corolla came on 13s. The main reason that F1 held on to 13" wheels was to restrict the size of brake rotors, so F1 went to carbon disks to get enough heat dissipation capacity. Not a great move from a cost perspective... Nowadays, when your average Corolla comes on 16" wheels, it's reasonable enought to expect that F1 can move up a few inches in wheel size. Somebody mentioned Ferrari cylinder counts for road vs. F1, but consider wheel sizes - is there a road Ferrari that leaves the factory on less than 19" wheels these days? It genuinely is time for Ferrari to get with the times, most other race series run on modern low profile rubber - hell, even Spec Miata uses 15" wheels!!

 

I see your point on the revs. But only time can tell. Bottom line is no matter what, they will not sound as good as 12, 10 and 8 cylinders. The ones in the 80's while not sounding bad, were not all that great either. I'd even take a 6 cylinder at this point!

As for the wheels, I think you are making it out to be a little more then it is. Going to a larger wheel will add weight, as even the lightest wheel weighs more then those light slicks they use. And I honestly think even a 16" wheel might look odd on such a small, low F1 car. The main reason newer cars have larger wheels is that the cars themselves have gotten so big. F1 cars are about the same size they have been for a long time. To each their own I guess.

 

No need to be so down on the rule changes. I agree with Gordon.

No matter what restrictions you throw at the F1 designers and engineers, within no time they are back at the old level. F1 will alway remain the pinnacle of motorsports.....

 

Very good post!

I agree about your comment regarding wheel siz\e, something that one tends to overlook when examining the rules.


I think the rev limit is imposed to keep some sanity in the power race.
I have no idea what kind of power they will already obtain within the rules already, but the FIA must be concerned by it .

 

The rev limit may have more to do with cost. To make the engines strong enough for those speeds some exotic materials are usually needed.

 

We know. For the other 98.4% of fans, it is.

 

Not a bad move when it comes to safely stopping a 220mph multiple times per lap under race conditions and avoiding brake fade though!.

Strangely enough, the likes of Ferrari and Porsche actually feel that carbon ceramic brakes are superior to their iron counterparts for some of their road cars too.

Hang on a minute!, how did it become Ferrari's fault that F1 uses 13" Wheels?.

I seem to recall reading an article where Ross Brawn said that changing to low profile tyres wasn't as easy as some people seem to think it is as the entire concept of an F1 cars suspension would have to be changed.

 

"We've now got the scenario of F1 being very relevant to the car industry but most importantly, F1 being very relevant to the environment.
"I always said that we have got some of the best brains in the sport in terms of engineers and technical people, and wouldn't it be great if they could use their brains to make the world a better place.
"The fact that we can reduce fuel consumption by 35 per cent is phenomenal, imagine if we could transfer that to every car out there - it would be 'wow'. That is a massive number.
"Imagine also with the usage of KERS, we are recovering one per cent at the moment but we could be up to 50 per cent in years to come.
"F1 becomes so relevant because everybody has a 1.6 engine. And costs go down and money goes into better uses than just making a car as fast as possible so I think it is fantastic, it is a really, really great step forward."
He called for additional rule changes to further increase F1's alignment with the car industry.
"I hope the next step is to make the wheels and tyres the same size as [road] cars so tyre manufacturers benefit from the safety that is learned, and engineering that can be put onto a 1.6-litre, Toyota, or Hyundai or Renault," said Fernandes.[/quote]

This man sees the big picture clearly.
Yes F1 is entertainment but the manufacturers are not there to entertain the crowd.