2014 SCCA schedule, no COTA round... | Page 3 | FerrariChat

2014 SCCA schedule, no COTA round...

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by hairy_scotsman, Oct 30, 2013.

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  1. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
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    Keith Verges
    Last I saw the rental cost for CoTA is about $62K per day, as you must use them for all workers, ambulance, wrecker, etc. When you add in other costs like insurance, the per participant cost is pretty high. In their defense, the cost to build the place was huge, so to get a ROI they need big revenues. I would really like it if they'd just say we will support a few basic clubs with lower rates. Also, I bet SCCA provides a large number of trained volunteers for other events and exactly what clubs have formal training programs for corner workers where they practice putting out fires, extracting drivers from wrecked cars, and first aid? As you can see, I am an SCCA fan, but no SCCA may also mean a trickle down effect for everyone.

    For example, I've been to a DE where I went off track (and not very far) in the wet and got stuck and it was not until the next session when a driver who saw me on his out lap and went in to tell the grid marshal that anyone knew I was there. The corner worker was in the porta potty because it was cold and wet. Funny in a DE, dangerous in a race where the next car could have gone off and collected me.
     
  2. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
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    I am pretty concerned, actually, and looking at probably traveling more. Next year we are looking at VIR, Road Atlanta, Barber, High Plains among others, to race. I've tried to get MSR Cresson back on calendar, but we shall see. Texas Motor Speedway may again be a venue. Losing TWS makes me sad - it was the first track I ever drove.
     
  3. hairy_scotsman

    hairy_scotsman Formula 3

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    Tim
    There's also the WEC/Tudor weekend, but yeah, the schedule's pretty thin.
     
  4. hairy_scotsman

    hairy_scotsman Formula 3

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    I know you didn't direct this at me, but I'll jump in. I think it likely depends on whether COTA can assure better reaction to on-track incidents to ensure small offs don't ruin whole races for people who've spent a lot of their own hard-earned money and time to be there.

    ...and on the other end, of course, it depends on whether COTA is willing to offer a reasonable price for the track rental. I doubt $62K/day is gonna cut it.
     
  5. hairy_scotsman

    hairy_scotsman Formula 3

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    BTW, is TWS officially closed now? If not, when does it close?
     
  6. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 30, 2007
    91,700
    last I heard, TWS closes in March 2015.

    local guys can correct that, if wrong.
     
  7. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Sep 15, 2004
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    Peter Krause
    ^^THIS^^

    I hate (and I am a thirty-year member, Chief Instructor of my 1000+ member Region and have won Nationals in several different, competitive classes) how the Region leadership "pre-qualifies" their potential attendees and membership when making decisions on venues and race dates. My Region's driver schools (which trained pro drivers like Tom Long and others) have been eliminated because "we can't make the numbers work." The haulers that come to VIR for the Majors weekend make some entry level Pro Racing events look like a Chumpcar race! Sheesh. It's an F1 track! The problem is not the attendees, the problem is making the event attractive enough to draw the numbers required to pay for it.

    The first National at COTA was such an unmitigated (PR) disaster (and to be fair, I wasn't there and know how hard it is to pull off inaugural, LARGE events), that a lot of folks said they wouldn't be back. But PCA makes it work, vintage makes it work.

    It's an SCCA problem, as Keith alludes to later...

    Do you know how many YEARS SCCA regions have been saying that? I remember what it cost to rent Road Atlanta or Summit in the 1980's. Heck, Charlotte Motor Speedway was next to NOTHING, and CCR had FIVE races a year there through the early 1990's.

    Barber was the first $20K+/day rental in 2002, Lime Rock has been at $25K+ since the last repaving. This is not new. And COTA is not $62K/day...

    I keep tabs on my local track and have followed the escalation of track rental rates due to the desire of track management to attract top level pro events versus their scheduled days. Their experience is contrary to your speculation re: pricing strategy. They will rent more days this year than last, rented a LOT more last year than the year before.

    If a renter says "no," then there are four more lined up to take the date. This may not be true with COTA, but they have enough, evidently...

    Let's see. Chrysler's Hellcat intro, Cadillac's ATS V PWC intro, Jaguar and Ferrari all the time, Porsche's WEC 919 video, it's amazing!

    Agreed. And with TWS closing, you're right, COTA will get more interest.

    Agreed, and I think also that NASA has passed it's apogee. NASA is in danger of becoming what it campaigned against, SCCA. PCA Club Racing, historic racing are on the rise, still.

    I didn't mean to be flippant. And I am definitely not meaning to be glib.

    I have been an SCCA member since the time when that was the ONLY amateur venue available to race and when the RunOffs were really "the best of the best." I want to believe in SCCA, but they have constantly disappointed me and many others (including those members, who like me, have devoted most of their adult life VOLUNTEERING for them) and frankly, I'm tired of opening Sports Car Magazine with yet another BoD initiative reminding the locals to "focus on customer service."

    There are just too many other, easier venues for people to go. It's not like it was...

    I would to. I know there are other tracks that offer tiered rental rates, and I know there is more "wiggle room" in the rates than is commonly thought.

    Unfortunately, while SCCA had a "hold" on many tracks by supplying workers for major events, and other clubs and organizations DID recognize the value of making a contribution to the Region in exchange for having the Region solicit and supply workers for their events, that really does not exist anymore. I see many Club Racing workers that "cross the line" to work for organizations and tracks for a check each day. That didn't used to happen...

    With the erosion (by aging and shrinkage of the pool) of the volunteer contingent making up the most valuable asset SCCA has to offer, and the rise of being able to train and pay their own workers (yes, VIR has it's own Crash and Burn School every winter), the tracks need make far less concessions to the often querulous Region leadership to get what they want and need. Hence, they see less value in an alliance with the local Regions.

    It's not an attack, it's just a well-founded, decades-long observation. That's just the way it is.

    Yes, I would like to see SCCA come back to COTA. It deserves to be on that stage.

    What has contributed to the fact that they're NOT there is Club Racing's misplaced "sense of entitlement," that I see (maybe mistakenly) present (just a trace) even in your post... It's hard to be isolated...
     
  8. hairy_scotsman

    hairy_scotsman Formula 3

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    Thanks! I've never driven there. I really need to get the STi over there & make it happen.
     
  9. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    SCCA is extremely risk averse. Their saftey systems are second to none. Pro series use our people for example the long beach gran prix. I raced CoTA with scca 2013 and the course management was terrible. One guy did ride the ambulance and the operation did not look too smooth to me. Perhaps a reason for scca not going back to CoTA is the track management requirements.
     
  10. hairy_scotsman

    hairy_scotsman Formula 3

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    #60 hairy_scotsman, Dec 23, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
    - I'm not sure what "enough" is then, because there just aren't many events out there of any kind. There certainly are not DEs lined up to replace events that say no. There are only a handful of DEs at COTA annually.

    - Thanks for clarifying re: the ads. I didn't understand what you meant. So there's 3, plus the Jaguar & Ferrari "all the time". I'm not sure what you mean by "all the time" because we've only heard of or seen Jags or Ferraris on the track a couple of times outside DEs or races. Even if there had been 10 or 12 such events out at COTA (I don't think there have been), and lets say 5-10 DEs, do you really think that's a good amount, or enough for an entity as massively entrenched in debt as they are? There are a lot of days in the year and COTA only has events for maybe 10-20% of them give or take (20% probably being on the very generous side). The rest of the time, the track is sitting idle.

    As far as it being an SCCA problem, the high prices, crappy attitude, and slow incident resolution are what everyone was talking about after the initial SCCAs at COTA. Those are COTA problems.
     
  11. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Never been, never will go. But, what has been their attitude to 'club' events? Do they allow overnight as do many? Do they allow self catering? As do everywhere else. I know the COTA nasties work the crowd for the GP.

    Honestly, give me Blackhawk, VIR, heck even Raceway Park. As for a F1 track, nothing will ever beat the Glen in any way.
     
  12. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    agreed....a cota problem. Im not sure about the money but we had too many cars in each group and more who wanted to run. Getting scca drivers to cota is not a problem. What most of us participants agreed is we would not be back with the current cota track management. So maybe that's why scca says forget about it. Watching the pro races on TV it does not apear that cota track management is learning anything.
     
  13. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
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    I agree SCCA has some issues, perhaps even a sense of entitlement, although I really think that has toned down a lot in the 20+ years I have been a member. I feel badly that I do not volunteer enough to make a difference, and don't complain about the club for that reason. Racers who don't help put on races but complain about the event irritate me. It's clear that SCCA could use some pointers or help from PCA, BMWCCA and the vintage folks who have put on events at CoTA.

    SCCA and NASA are sort of my only options, as SRF and SM don't exactly fit with the other groups and I like to race spec cars, for the most part.

    I'll probably go to CoTA for a DE event next year just for fun, but I'd have to rent a race car for the other groups and I have to think that is pricey.
     
  14. hairy_scotsman

    hairy_scotsman Formula 3

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    It's hard to learn anything when you already know everything.
     
  15. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    They allowed overnight in October, and that was a spectator event. Don't think they allow self-catering (but I don't know anyone that allows that, I have experience with that at The Glen, VIR, Road Atlanta and Laguna Seca), but smaller places that don't have meal service do. Summit Point, Blackhawk, IRP. Not sure even Elkhart Lake allows that...

    There were hiccups, for sure, especially those first couple events. Getting drivers to COTA is not aproblem, agreed. Now, the track management is completely different, there have been at least two wholesale changes between March of 2013 and now. The people we worked with at the October race couldn't have been more helpful. The worst thing that happened is that a smelly, leaky dumpster took two days to move away from the tech tent...

    Good, I sure hope so. I think SCCA was hobbled by running the first big amateur race there. Race or DE, you sure drive it well!

    Man, what did they do to piss you off? ;)
     
  16. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Elkhart Lake? Catering? hahahahahahahaha!!!!!! only if it involves cheese, sausage and beer!

    (not that those are bad things, mind you ;) :D)

    I'd love to know the same....as much as we all find amusement in some of COTA's awful business decisions, if I had that track in my back yard I'd be their biggest fanboy...
     
  17. hairy_scotsman

    hairy_scotsman Formula 3

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    #67 hairy_scotsman, Dec 23, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
    Not pissed off. Just realistic. They've declined multiple offers from a major race series' experienced head marshal & his crews to work their major races for free. Not interested. The guys offered to just help them correct the problems they're having, too, & then just leave them to it. Not interested. This kind of thing happens in every area of their operation, not just on the track. Are there new guys out there trying to do things better? Yes. They're trying their hardest. They will no doubt be replaced by other guys who will try hard, just like the first two groups were. It's not like the place never had people trying to do things right. They have. Since the beginning. Those guys are all gone, and so are most of their replacements. Who's still there that's been there from (almost) the beginning? That's where the problem is.

    It's amazing to have the track here. Thank God Tavo decided to pitch Austin to Bernie and not somewhere else. That said, having it here, and it being a fantastic facility & all doesn't mean we're blind to the realities of COTA. There are lot of local F1/racing fans who see COTA for what it is -- a poorly-managed, heavily subsidized drain on the taxpayer. We also see what it could be if run better -- a very successful, accessible haven for the motorsport enthusiast and something every Austinite could be very proud of.
     
  18. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
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