2016 FORMULA 1 GRAND PRIX OF EUROPE: RACE *** SPOILERS ***

Alain Prost:
"Watching the Grand Prix of Europe in Baku was "really boring" because the TV cameras did not convey the true speed of the cars. I would think that I am doing the same behind my PlayStation and it's not difficult."

 

Peter, if people didn't respond to such posts the likelihood is that the constant bickering on here would diminish and we would enjoy coming to the F1 section rather more than we do at the moment. The fact that some continue to respond suggests that they actually get a kick out of the continual bad feeling. You know, as do we all, that posting a response isn't going to change anyone's mind, so why do it?

 

I don't have as much time as I used to either. And don't particularly want to waste it on small minded discussion.

People whine and whine and constantly tell me they are going to put me on ignore as if not getting to talk to them is some form of punishment for me. How presumptuous can they be. It is bordering on arrogance for them to think I would even want to engage with them in the first place. The world has enough whining and smarmy people and the people who adopt that attitude here are the ones I cannot stand.


@p singhoff - what have I ignored? If posts come in from people I am trying to ignore not much I can do about that

 

Actually you presumed wrong. I do not have anyone on ignore so I am neither curious or undisciplined. My suggestion was in hope we could avoid further bans of people who's posts I enjoy and find informative. I have no problem reading what I consider useless posts and just ignoring them.

Carry on anyway you feel, obviously you have that right.

 

I have some great news for you toil.......I will neither put you on ignore nor will I ignore your posts. I'll even keep responding so we both have the pleasure of each other's banter.

I also found your post comparing drivers completely incoherent and illogical. I can only assume that you were still half asleep when you wrote it. Maybe you can re-write it in a way that makes sense so that I can then respond.

Keep up the good work.

 

Hamilton tends to make mistakes but he compensates for his mistakes x3 the next race!

 

Elton never beat Alonso, they tied on points, if you are going to state something as fact, make sure it is a fact please. Beating infers more points, the measure of championship seasons. He lost the title to Kimi, the also-ran loser etc as you claim, again, Elton GOT BEATEN by another, in your opinion, lesser driver. Bearing in mind Alonso matched him with no support from his own team, and Elton had uncle Ron pulling strings in his favour, I'd say Alonso morally was the better driver that year, especially since in the last race, he drove strategically to make sure Ferrari, not mclaren, won the championship. Also, in that race, I seem to remember he confused the pit limiter for the go faster button, at some point, or was that in the following years Brazilian race, my memory escapes me.... Seems steering wheels do confuse the poor chap more often than my old granny

Vettel, whether you like it or not, beat the highly regarded Webber, not just one season, but four in a row, to the championship. He was of course favoured by Horner, but that's because he was the guy that they could totally rely upon in their opinion.

Ricciardo, he has some way to go, a good racer, but is he able to make the step ?, maybe, he has more natural talent I think than most on the grid, but will red bulls mismanagement take the edge off him before he reaches his potential? Possibly

Verstappen...... Won a race in his first season at the senior squad, drives very well and has made 10% of the mistakes Elton has in the same season...... Again, be careful of your statements, they don't actually stack up to a hill of beans.

As for Elton, let's hope he does a little simulator training, and bothers to learn where the indicators and wipers are on his steering wheel before the next race, assuming bieber and he don't elope to get married of course hehehehehe.

 

Does he? How do you figure? He had a chance to jump rosberg in wdc and blew it. How many races has he won lately.... And only then with a bit of luck.... He's been convincingly beaten by his team mate all this year and the end of last year.... He took out both cars in a crash. I don't see the "compensation x3" that you talk of.

I think he's an awesome driver, but they all are. Max makes some mistakes still, but he's the only one who impresses me atm. He could be a flash in the pan though.

 

I think he meant he makes 3 times the mistakes in the next race as he did in the last! Hahahahahahaha. I was expecting him to flatten the castle wall at some point, but I guess because he was in 'learner driver mode' he wasn't going fast enough. - maybe Mercedes did do it on purpose to save on carbon fibre replacement costs, seeing as how the guy couldn't seem to stay on track Saturday! Hehe

 

This.

Verstappen being beaten in Quali is no surprise. He never set the world alight in quali. People forget he's still 18 btw...he's going to get a lot quicker. On race pace, so far he's been with Ricciardo at all occasions. Stuck with him in Barcelona with ease. Monaco we can't judge because he was stuck in traffic almost the whole time until he ballsed it up. Canada? Greater race pace. Baku? Greater race pace.

But in his wisdom, Toil has already seen everything: Verstappen is not worthy.

Completely agree with Vettel/Webber. Webber automatically got the #2 position. Up until end of 2010 there wasn't any dragging forth one or the other, 2011 Vettel simply got his head around the car which Webber struggled to do (the EBD required a very strong belief that the car would simply stick at higher speed, whereas logic dictated the car couldn't make it around the corner. Vettel got his head around it whilst Webber struggled with that idea.

 

So you obviously try to ignore me
You avoided to reply on my response to your absolutely unlogical reasoning about the mechanics. It is obvious that you have a contradiction in your reasoning...You said Mercedes put in efforts to support Rosberg by changing the mechanics but denied that Hamilton might have had an advantage by them in the last years. It is impossible to have both because:

a) none of the mechanic crews is of a higher quality than the other. If this is the case then it is impossible to say that Mercedes did switch them to favour Rosberg because there can not be an advantage if the quality of the crews is identical!

b) the crew Rosberg has this year is the better one and Mercedes knew that and therefore did switch to favour Rosberg as you intended. But this would mean that Rosbergs crew today was the better one when with Hamilton, otherwise Mercedes wouldn´t have changed them to support Rosberg! But this would mean that Hamilton had an advantage in the garage for the last years over Rosberg, something you certainly deny as it would take away some glance from Hamiltons WDCs....

So you have to decide on one of these two options as I doubt from your writing that you believe in the third option that Hamiltons team today is the better one...

Furthermore you contradict yourself even more ofter: You denied that there is a favourism at Mercedes all the years but now you suddenly think there is one as this is your only explanation why Rosberg might be better in the WDC now than Hamilton. But unfortunately you absolutely failed to explain why on earth you think that the policy not to support one of the drivers all the sudden changed over the winter. I do not see any reason...You mentioned it is a conspiracy because of the sales numbers of Mercedes but it did not bother them for two years now that Hamilton was winning, so why do you think it woudl now?

Not to mention your post about no.2 drivers...You always pointed out that Hamiltons WDCs are worth more because he had no No.2 driver and then you even start a new thread asking Mercedes to hire an explicite No.2 driver to secure the WDC in 2017 as soon as Mercedes might have only the best but not the absolute dominant car...To make things even worse you bring Raikkonen into play who you permanently bash in order to diminish the achievement of Vettel! As we all know that you do not think that Mercedes will dismiss Hamilton but Rosberg you actually want Mercedes to back up Hamilton with a number two driver although you always denied that. Again a great contradiction to all the things you said before.

And now to your drivers comparison: I think it is allready very questionable to rate different drivers (who actually never drove against each other in the same team) by comparison with former team mates over different years and cars. But it becomes absolute nonsense when this comparison involves Raikkonen of who we know that the results are very much bound to his comfort and motivation that varies very much over the years. To rate Alonso over Vettel because Raikkonen looked very bad against the Spaniard in the one year they drove together is "ambitious" to say at best! This does not mean that it is not possible that Alonso is the better driver but it is certainly no proof for that!
I would not even say that it proofs Ricciardo is the better driver than Vettel as it was just one year. You could also argue that Button is better than Hamilton taking just the one year he dominated Lewis...you would argue that Hamilton had the upper hand in the other two years but how do you know that Vettel would have not had the upper hand on Ricciardo in the following two as well? None of use knows what was going on behind closed doors at RB those days and whether there was tension between RB and Vettel and how the intended move to Ferrari came into play...Certainly it is not the bright spot in Vettels vita but to only rate him from this year is very biased!

 

So I actually presumed wrong in you, but I think my post is still valid for those you refer to being in danger of getting a ban

 

I missed the race as I was driving cross country to race karts in Cali, but after a little thread reading, I do wish car settings could be relayed by radio, we have had several bad wrecks as drivers swap modes this year.

 

I am positive my original intent has become moot. I either stated it poorly or it was simply not considered a good idea by many people. With that said, I don't enjoy anyone banned nor do I think anyone in particular is in danger of a ban. I just enjoy the information by some posters here that I would have never known by just watching a race and I hope they will always be around so I will be better informed.

 

Well where do I start? Very surprised to see tesla get a permanent ban for that. I've seen people not even get a ban for much worse. Neurobreaker said the staggered ban rule for 1st second and third offence was done away with at the time he banned bas so very surprised to see it enforced here. Ad hoc application where some rules apply to some and not to others depending who the mods like. Guess it's always been that way. If reviews of mod decisions can be made then I would like to see that here.

With regard to all the other posts; no point entering into a discussion with anyone who claims verstappen is better than Lewis. The kid has one victory (which he lucked into) and has yet to qualify within 3 tenths of his new team mate. But let's compare him to a 3 time wdc 3rd all time in wins and 3rd all time in poles. Not even fit to carry his jockstrap as Ian would say...

Mr singhoff; I am much more simple than you like to make out. All I was saying was that, again in my opinion, merc gave Hamilton the more experienced crew when he joined merc probably to make the contract a more attractive proposition as they needed a top class driver to replace Schumacher.

Now they swapped the crews over and I think it's because they favour rosberg. There is a difference between perceived inferiority and actual inferiority. One would infer a more experienced crew to be better. What turns out to be the case is rosbergs old crew never made mistakes on his car but have made about 7-8 already on Hamiltons. What I'm asking is why? Crews were swapped due to divisions in the team over the drivers they support and now look what happened. What is your take on this?


In terms of driver debates we have been down this path many times. I don't see an issue with using past team mates to compare drivers even if they never raced against each other. You must take a holistic approach - Vettel had no answer to Ricci in terms of pace in races or qualy. Hamilton has always been quicker than jenson as the stats in qualifying and who was ahead in one two finishes dictate. He lost our one year due to inconsistency and crashes with massa. Hamilton is much more consistent now and in the same team I think it's quite clear Hamilton would easily beat him. If the natural pace is there then that's good; much easier to fix mistakes.

 

lol...you never fail to make me laugh.

You certainly have an answer for everything...gotta hand it to ya.

I still think your logic and conclusions are flawed. I won't bother elaborating, because the other Peter already did an excellent job of pointing out the flaws, which you continue to ignore.

Each to their own, hey?

 

What did I miss aircon? Did my best to read and reply before my train jhourney ended

 

Funniest comment of the entire thread. Bravo.

 

I'm here all week, enjoy the chicken!

 

Do not forget Jenson Button...
When Jenson joined McLaren at the end of 2009, the "general consensus" (if such thing exists...) is that he would stand no chances against Hamilton; well, as we all know, it was a very close contest, and Jenson was the best of the two in 2011. Two options here; either Jenson Button is "about as good as Lewis", so why aren't we speaking of him? Or Lewis isn't as good as some say he is?

I think comparisons between team-mates are useless, and I do think this since 1979.
In 1977, Ronnie Peterson, considered by many as one of the fastest drivers of his generation, was team-mate with Patrick Depailler at Tyrrell, and was generally slightly slower.
In 1979, Jacques Laffite was team mate with Patrick Depailler at Ligier, and was at least as fast as him, and sometimes even faster.
Does this mean that "Happy Jacques" was slightly faster than Ronnie Peterson?
Seems a bit absurd, no?

Rgds

 

Great post.

Jenson's move was supposed to be career ending and people would forget his title as he would be slaughtered by Lewis. He scored more points overall in their 3 years, too.

Lewis would show Rosberg who is boss...he only beat an old man and this would once again prove how much faster Hamilton is to the world. Year on year it's been very close. Yet we constantly have to hear how slow Rosberg is and how he doesn't hold a candle to his superior.

Looking back at Kovalainen, the few races he actually didn't have a technical problem he was always right there with Hamilton.

Food for thought, and all that.

 

You assert that every time a Hamilton fan is moderated, consistently ignore evidence to the contrary, and you continue to assert the lie. Enough.

- Attack on moderator(s) who are working to implement these rules and clean up the F1 forum: Moderator discretion, up to and including permanent ban from either F1 forum or F-Chat as a whole.​

My discretion: 3 week ban.

Regards,
Andrew.

 

Uhoh.... I'm next! I'll shut up now

 

I have my doubts that you would....oh, wait! I know: something tells me "at least for three weeks"?