2020 F40 Icona ...Its Coming, Get Excited!!!!

Only the last 2 on the list above are engines that were completely designed, developed and built by Cosworth, all the rest were modifications of an existing block/engine, usually different heads, sometimes more, and other than the last 2 un-released cars with zero customer history, no V12s and certainly none where the engine was a structural member.

 

The 700 is an updated number. Is that number now official? It does not surprise me if they make 700. My car just arrived in Italy for the World Finals Ferrari Challenge.


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700 is the number that Mr. @Marcel Massini gave us, so I guess yes, it is a bit official.

 

You stated they did not have road car engine experience, just the cars I have listed prove they have probably built more road car engines than race engines, so clearly they do have significant and proven road car engine knowledge over many decades.

There will be far more built under non disclosure agreements on top of that.

 

what's being questioned here? cosworth know about engines, they are extremely well respected in the industry and I personally don't doubt their ability to create a solid one for the Valk.

 

just reserve judgement on all of those things until the customer cars have been delivered, I do agree that it's more of a special occasion car though.

 

Actually what I wrote:

Cosworth past skillset is race car engines, not street;

I presumed that would be understood as this, more verbosely expressed:

Cosworth past skillset is developing and producing race car engines, not cleansheet design and production of durable engines for street cars ;

I do realize Cosworth has a long history of modifying engines produced by other manufacturers for street cars.
https://www.automotivemanufacturingsolutions.com/powertrain/rise-of-the-valkyrie/39666.article
In their own words:
Cosworth has so far generally not carried out final assembly of engines, but has instead shipped parts out to its customers, but this will definitively change with the Valkyrie engine. “We will build them in their entirety,” Wood confirms. “So, you could pretty much say this is our first complete engine production project.”

Otherwise, the closest one I can find is Aston Martin One-77 is close, Cosworth took an existing Ford 5.9L block and increased it to 7.3L but there is not about how the One-77s are holding up, seems few are driven
https://sportscardigest.com/aston-martin-one-77/
here's one for sale, not driven:
https://www.jamesedition.com/cars/aston_martin/one-77/2011-aston-martin-one-77-for-sale-10429527

NDA's aside (which, by their nature are secret and unprovable), I believe the V12 engines Cosworth is developing, of their own design, for Aston Martin and Gordon Murrary are their very first cleansheet engines intended (at least initially) for homologated road car usage (which presumes the engines will be durable, which is completely unlike their past cleansheet engines which were all intended for race car usage which presumes they are not durable other than for short usage).

What's my point? Good luck, we'll see what happens, time will tell, but so far it is not convincing me as the Valkyrie is many years off schedule all due to the engine.

some history of my point:

July 2017:
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/cars/near-production-aston-martin-valkyrie-even-better-concept

May 2018:
https://www.thesupercarblog.com/aston-martin-valkyrie-signed-production/
The first Valkyries are scheduled to be delivered during 2019 with each car costing £2.5 million or $3.37 million

 

Given how long Cosworth has been in a business, I think they they know how to design a reliable engine. However, if you design your engine to rev 12k rpm, it is quite certain that:

1) It's not going to be as service free as engines with lower rpm range
2) It won't be as smooth on idle rpm or alternatively the idle rpm is rather high

 

I don't quite understand why Ferrari should go with the Valkyrie route. While the concept is for sure fascinating at first glimpse, the car has quite serious flaws:

1) Rather ugly
2) Awkward driving position
3) No luggage space
4) No comfort
5) Not meant for road

I have to say I value T.50 much more. It can be driven anywhere and in most cases it will leave Valkyrie behind: Both on twisty roads and autobahns.

Valkyrie doesn't contain any classic elegance that Ferraris have, so no point to follow this kind of extreme design.

 

Overrated BS. A Ferrari has to be cutting edge. The Valkyrie is extreme, a normal Ferrari shouldn't be that extreme; the next LaFerrari though might as well be.

 

the engine formula generally is the only thing needed from the valkyrie formula, a lesser focus on lightness to make it a little more usable can be done, perhaps a dry weight closer to that of an f430 Scuderia than sub 1200kg like the valkyrie achieves is more do-able

 

I have provided a long list of road car engines that Cosworth have built in the past, which you choose to ignore.

What you are referencing is just the current iteration of Cosworth Racing under its latest ownership, and not Cosworth as a company which has been around since the 50s

 

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I suggest this thread now goes back on topic............

 

I agree with the cutting edge part, but I don't want Ferrari to look like this:
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Perhaps I'm just too old to apreciate it, but for me it looks like a some kind of duck. I can't see any elegance in it.

 

I see where you are coming from, sir. The Valkyrie is not pretty; it is stunning though. You look at it and think "wow, laptime"!!! A current F1 car is not pretty either, but it is stunning. That is what I mean when I say that classical elegance is overrated. These machines should be all about performance. Sometimes they are both stunning and pretty, like the LaFerrari or the Su-57 fighter jet. Happy times then.

 

LAF pretty ???
It is a concept of P3 / 4 aborted !!!
The front and the profile are bad, only the rear saves the situation.

 

Definitely. Especially when they think that they can fob you off without a dry sump oiling system.

 

Speaking of P 3 / 4 was there ever any consideration given to a modern P4 coupe first and then a second P4 aperta version like the 812C was introduced in two closed and open versions?

 

The Glickenhaus/Pininfarina P5 was supposed to be a modern interpretation of the P4.

 

Absolutely, having seen it once, the mother of the one off is fantastic, with one or two details like the shape of the headlights and the position of the Scudetti, it could have represented an approach to perfection.

 

To my eyes, it is the best looking road-going Ferrari ever. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all. I don't care for cars with soft lines, like the P3/4. Pretty is perhaps the wrong word, I meant handsome. For non-native speakers it might be difficult to understand the difference, but I will try to clarify it. Pretty is how a good looking girl looks. Handsome is how a good looking man looks. Feminine beauty vs masculine beauty. Ferraris are elite male athletes for me, not girls. I don't really like girly cars.

Care to elaborate?

 

Roma...

 

In regards to luggage the sf90 has zero space and is much less extreme in terms of technical specifications

 

Unless one tracks regularly, a wet sump doesn't make a difference. I haven't found a reference for a wet sump though.

 

One of your countrymen @Lukeylikey disagrees with your assessment of SF90 luggage space.