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2020 WEC: Hypercar Class

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by jgonzalesm6, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. lmpdesigner

    lmpdesigner Formula 3
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    Brian Willis
    The issue is that lap times do not make a race car.

    If I can out accelerate you coming out of a corner then I will win the race, regardless if the overall lap times are the same.

    You would have to have a huge amount of extra hp in the 2 wheel drive car, and a lot lower drag to be able to pass me on a long straightaway. Like the Mulsanne.

    But then I would just out brake you going into the chicanes in my 4wd hyprid and come out of teh corner harder and faster.

    All-I repeat - Every lap sim I have ever done or seen always shows the same thing: You have to BOP the hell (negatively) out of the proper hypercars (Toyota, Peugeot, Ferrari) and BOP (positively) any other car to get any sort of equivalence. And then teh Hybrids still have an overall advantage over the length of teh race.

    Toyota and Peugeot have a bit of understanding on LeMans, hybrids, etc. And Ferrari has similar understanding. There is a reason why they have gone the full 4wd hybrid route.
     
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  3. 444sp

    444sp Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2016
    444
    The LMH rules state that cars on slick tires must wait until hitting 120 km/h before their electric motor is deployed, which is set to produce a different acceleration pattern out of corners with the Toyota drivers no longer benefiting from boost. I think I have read that it is 150 km/h in case of rain tires. It is also already known that the Toyota will weigh 1040 KG and the Glickenhaus 1030 KG.
    Even so, do you think it's going to be a disadvantage for RWD?
    https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/toyota-expecting-hypercar-era-to-bring-different-type-of-racing/
     
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  4. lmpdesigner

    lmpdesigner Formula 3
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    See damn BOP is already screwing it all up.
    Handicapping the proper Hypercars to allow a bunch of uncompetitive cars a chance to be race with them. Why slow done the most interesting, most relevant and coolest cars at LeMans to allow a bunch of cars that should not be in the same class a chance?

    Racing t0o the least common denominator.
     
  5. lmpdesigner

    lmpdesigner Formula 3
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    But your obserrvations on the latest set of rules does negate a lot of the performance advantage of teh pure hybrids. I stopped paying close attention to the latest ACO rules a while ago. The latest set of rules are about the 10th or 11th set they have produced since announcing the whole Hypercar class. And as I have said-those original rules set where some of the best rules ever written for racing.

    Then the OEM's came in, changed everything, then new engine rules, then new hybrid rules, then BOP, then LMh-d, now more BOP.

    I had a very nice program from my Japanese customer initially. All was going well. We were going to do a car to the original race car Hypercar rules. Like Toyota. We had a good group of people working on the car, had some neat ideas, etc. We would have made Toyota work for their performance/sucess. We didn't expect to blow Toyota away. But keep them honest.

    Then the OEM's mucked it all up, then the ACO back pedalled big time on BOP, then LMd-h, yada, yada, yada.

    My customer had enough of all of this screwing around. If we had gone thru with the program we would have:

    1.) Wasted money designing the car around the original engine rules. We would have had to redo the entire ICE program, after spending millions.
    2.) The current rules really make a proper 4wd front EV motor concept car pretty pointless. So we would have designed a chassis to fit an EV traction otor up front that would have never been used correctly.

    So we would have had to trash out tub, find a new pwerplant, rethink the whole strategy we had come up with, etc. I figured the changes in the the rules caused my client to spend about 1 million dollars up front for no return. And if we had continued with the program and had to tear up our design and modify it at the last minute to match the latest set or ACO rules would have bankrupted the program. I figure we would have wasted 15 million or so dollars, in the end.

    So my client, seeing the writing on the wall, pulled out. He just could not afford to waste that kind of money. Toyota may be able to do that, but not us.

    So as you can tell I am pretty bitter about it all. I have a gid track record of doing successful cars for LeMans and this would have been a very interesting program. ACO loved us as we were a privateer type program challenging the big boy Toyota. They liked the fact that the entrant had a successful history at LeMans, represented the Asian market, with a little but scrappy design team in the USA doing the design. But not to be-And as my client said-BOP will destroy the class/concept. The ACo will be forced to limit the performance of teh better designed cars to match the performance of the least capable cars. And that is exactly what is happening.

    Hopefully when Peugeot and Ferrai get into it the ACO will go back to the original set of rules in some form and tell everyone that, if they want to win at LeMans, do a proper car to one set of rules and not relie on BOP to cover your inadequacies.
     
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  6. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    They have a pretty good chance of getting a podium. The ByKolles won´t get to the end, they never do, and there are only two Toyotas. And in 24 hours one of the Toyotas can fail. Who knows...
     
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  8. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    It's well known that engineers will always feel they are held back by the rules, and they should be allowed more freedom.
    As an organiser, the ACO has to look at the larger picture, and ensure broad participation of teams and constructors.
    The last 3 years at Le Mans were farcical with very few cars in contention, and it's imperative to attract more cars in the top category.
    In 2019/2020, with the DP1 category, IMSA was more interesting to follow than the WEC.
    So obviously the ACO understood that the rules have to acommodate that, and not scare away potential participants.
     
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  9. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    The engine on the Glickenhaus is the big unknown.

    But I can't see them in contention for the win anyway. They have already withdrawn from the first race, so will have very little mileage when they turn up at Le Mans.

    This year, there will be only 5 cars in the top category, and I suppose that Toyota with a massive technological advantage, more experience and unlimited resources will win again.
     
  10. 444sp

    444sp Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2016
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    With the last delay of the calendar, Glickenhaus will do the full season and they will have 3 races before Le Mans (Spa, Portimao and Monza)
     
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  12. william

    william F1 World Champ
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  13. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

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    The same happens in FIA GT with the R8 and the GT3.
     
  14. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Yes, I know, but FIA GT is more of an amateur series, where constructors try to sell as many cars they can.
    Worldwide, Porsche and Audi really dominate that big market, ahead of Ferrari or Aston.

    But LMDh will be the top category in the WEC or IMSA, where Porsche and Audi will be competing for overall wins.
    They risk splitting the points and miss the championship. Just saying ...
     
  15. lmpdesigner

    lmpdesigner Formula 3
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    What makes you think Porsche and Audi care about the other? They "hate" each other.

    Reminds me of a saying from a Navy admiral one day, when answering a question from a civilian reporter.

    "No you ave it wrong--The Russians are our adversaries, the Air Force is our enemy."
     
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  16. 444sp

    444sp Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2016
    444
    For this low budget the VW group should present 4 brands to win Le Mans, Audi, Porsche, Bentley and Lamborguini
     
  17. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    I can understand encouraging a healthy rivalry among brands of the same group, GM did that for decades.
     

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