2021 F1 changes | Page 6 | FerrariChat

2021 F1 changes

Discussion in 'F1' started by intrepidcva11, Apr 4, 2017.

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  1. ferrariformulauno

    ferrariformulauno Formula 3
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    https://www.pitpass.com/60602/Proposal-for-2021-engine-formula-revealed


    In the presence of FIA President Jean Todt, representatives from the FIA, FIA Formula One World Championship Commercial Rights Holder (F1) and current and potential Formula One manufacturer representatives met today, 31 October, in Paris to discuss regulations for the 2021 Power Unit.

    In line with the objectives outlined by the FIA for the future of these regulations, which include a reduction in cost, maintaining road relevance with hybrid technology and improving the sound of the cars and the appeal for the fans, manufacturer representatives were presented with a roadmap for the development of the next generation of regulations.

    The proposals shared today have been developed jointly by the FIA and by F1 using data and input from teams, power unit suppliers and outside experts, and the overall framework for the 2021 power unit definition will be in place and published by the FIA at the end of 2017.

    In order to uphold the objective of cost reduction, work will continue over the next 12 months to define certain elements of the Power Unit, but the design and development of the complete Power Unit will not be possible until all the information is released at the end of 2018. This aims to ensure that manufacturers continue to work on the current specification Power Unit.

    During the remaining part of 2017 and 2018, the FIA and F1 will also work with the teams to establish power unit test and development restrictions as well as other cost containment measures.

    Manufacturer representatives were presented with the vision for the key new features of the 2021 Power Unit proposed by the FIA and F1. These are as follows:

    1.6 Litre, V6 Turbo Hybrid

    3000rpm higher engine running speed range to improve the sound

    Prescriptive internal design parameters to restrict development costs and discourage extreme designs and running conditions

    Removal of the MGUH

    More powerful MGUK with focus on manual driver deployment in race together with option to save up energy over several laps to give a driver controlled tactical element to racing

    Single turbo with dimensional constraints and weight limits

    Standard energy store and control electronics

    High Level of external prescriptive design to give 'Plug-And-Play' engine/chassis/transmission swap capability

    Intention to investigate tighter fuel regulations and limits on number of fuels used

    A series of meetings will now commence with all the interested parties to discuss and develop the proposal in the spirit of the widest possible cooperation.

    "Today was a key step in the development of the Power Unit regulations for 2021," said FIA Secretary-General for Sport, Peter Bayer. "The FIA has been working with the Commercial Rights Holder to define a positive step forward for these regulations which maintain Formula One's place at the pinnacle of motor sport technology whilst addressing the key issues facing the sport such as cost, road relevance and fan experience at the racetrack. We felt it was important to bring the teams into the discussions today and explain the direction we are taking and I'm pleased with the response we have received."

    "The 2021 power unit is an example of the future way the FIA as regulators, F1 as commercial right holders, the teams and the manufacturers as stakeholders will work together for the common good of the sport," added. Formula 1, Managing Director, Motorsports Ross Brawn. "The proposal presented today was the outcome of a series of meeting which took place during 2017 with the current teams participating in the FIA Formula 1 World Championship and the manufacturers who showed their interest to be part of the pinnacle of motor sport.

    "Also, we've carefully listened to what the fans think about the current PU and what they would like to see in the near future with the objective to define a set of regulations which will provide a powertrain that is simpler, cheaper and noisier and will create the conditions to facilitate new manufacturers to enter Formula 1 as powertrain suppliers and to reach a more levelled field in the sport.

    "The new F1 has the target to be the world's leading global sports competition married to state of the art technology. To excite, engage, and awe fans of all ages but to do so in a sustainable manner. We believe that the future power unit will achieve this."


    MGU-H will be removed
     
    jgonzalesm6 likes this.
  2. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I feel these current Manufacturers are all based in the European Community which are being pressured by government bodies for a more "greener" PU, some wanting to completely do away with the ICE entirely hence the current F1 formula leaning towards in that direction.

    I'm with you, F1 should remain a motorsport and not for road relevance test bed. Maybe the FIA governing body needs to move.

    God forbid here in the states, they strap an MGU unit on top-fuel dragsters to make them more "greener" and reduce the noise level.:rolleyes:
     
  3. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The MGU-H was the most complicated part of the car. Glad they got rid of it.
     
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  4. itschris

    itschris Formula 3

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    Good LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Well I think they answered my quintessential question at the end of the previous page as you referenced above. It's pretty clear that F1 is a slave to the manufacturers now and they don't have the clout nor the balls to reverse that course. So fuel saving is a key component of racing cars. They have NOT listened to fans at all. This is essentially the same formula with one less electric motor. They're going to run it at 3000 rmp higher... step in the right direction... but cut everyone off at the knees by restricting fuel. What has racing come to?
     
  5. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    It’s a step backwards, that’s for sure. Wonder if the next spec will be back to the current PU. Standard battery? That’s where money spent on advances and research could come useful in the real world :(
     
  6. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Incredible. How ****ing wrong is the FIA. Ever closer to completely giving up on this complete and utter ********ery.

    Why does it take ****ing 3 years to remove the MGU H and have a different fuel flow restrictor, as that's all they're doing really. Completely and totally incompetent.

    A tweet from Alex Wurz posted this...they asked 26 F1 drivers this!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Why am i not surprised? each time they anonce changes, they're always crap.....only decent thin is MGuk gone...Honda must be paying a lot of dinners, lololo
     
  8. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Isn't the MGU-H the main reason the engines are so quiet? Dumping it along with increased revs should make these sound pretty badass

    That said a rev capped (15k RPM) V12 with a simple KERS running on biofuels would be cheap, reliable, and sound amazing.

    THINK FIA! THIS IS WHAT THE FANS WANT!
     
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  9. itschris

    itschris Formula 3

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    They say they do... but clearly they don't really care too much about what the fans really want.
     
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  10. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Interestingly Mercedes is trying to push the FIA to keep the MGU-H...their special little toy of course. But they get to keep it 3 more years.

    Even if they said 1.5 V6 twin turbo with KERS that'd be a decent step forward...but keeping that single turbo...why?!

    3.5 V10 or V12 with direct injection and KERS, 15K to 17K rpm or so as you say, simply perfect if you ask me. Horner wants it as he knows that's what fans love to hear. But what does Red Bull know? What do they know about marketing...? oh right! ;).
     
  11. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    lol exactly
     
  12. GLS12

    GLS12 Formula Junior

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    Whole thing seems dum to me, but I am a new fan so what do I know? I would prefer they go back to naturally aspirated big V10s or 12s and get rid of all this hybrid crap. If you want to control costs and encourage others to get involved, make engines simpler and that will also have the benefit of better sound for the fans. F1 is not relevant (and it shouldn't be) to road cars (put aside the hyper cars that have KERS systems as they are so limited they really don't matter for this purpose). If you want to make F1 really relevant to road cars, why not just have it turn into the F1 star in the reasonably priced car that was on top gear every week.
     
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  13. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
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    From a broad perspective, why does F1/Liberty really NEED the FIA? Why could the teams not just collectively tell them to piss off, we are making up our own rules thank you very much? I guess I've just never really understood how the FIA has any real power or leverage, other than what the teams have voluntarily agreed to. I guess the real question is whether these crap rule changes are truly the desires of the manufacturers or the FIA.
     
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  14. itschris

    itschris Formula 3

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    So right now I believe the rev limit is 15K but they run at 12k because they don’t have the fuel or fuel flow to make it useful. So what does raising it to 18k do? If their intent is to further limit consumption...and it sounds like it is... I don’t see this as anything notable. Keeping the “controversial“ V6 turbo is not listening to the fans. It’s the exact opposite and is sort of insulting.
     
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  15. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    It is insulting. You're absolutely right. I lost a lot of respect for Brawn and his statement ''we're listening to the fans'' today. Grosjean posting ''18K RPM yeah baby'' today, is he retarded? they'll be running at 15500. The fuel flow cap will be 120 instead of 100, so the engines won't be able to rev that high as they'll never have enough fuel available.

    They're taking another YEAR of meetings to figure it all out...why not get it sorted in ****ing january? Race these new ''exciting'' engines for 2019. FIA is so out of touch it's ridiculous. It's November and what have they done with their overtaking group? They've established one and that's it...It's full of bureaucrats achieving the square root of sweet **** all. I wish I could do something...It's not hard to make this sport as exciting as it should be. It's not hard to implement cost cutting measures and at the same time make the sport better than it's ever been. There'll be sponsors knocking on the doors again, the surplus of money the teams have and can't spend on fancy aerodynamic **** (can only spend so much on it) they can quite simply use to entertain clients (oh so important...lol), put in their company kitty, help promising youthful drivers through the ranks..
     
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  16. itschris

    itschris Formula 3

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    So now we all wait and for what? More of the same sanitized green machines? What is going on? Could they get it more wrong? I almost feel like this is a joke and theyre going to come and say “just kidding.”

    Seriously... what is Brawn doing? What is his purpose really... it’s not changing the direction of what all pretty much agree is wrong with F1. It’s literally more of the same...more of the same engine everyone hates and less of any of the things fans of racing actually admire about racing. By let’s be honest I guess. I posed the question...what does F1 want to be...about racing or marketing. I know the answer. I’m just extremely shocked and disappointed that Brawn of all people is bought and paid for.
     
    Bas likes this.
  17. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I wish I knew. But the more I think about it the more I want a true rival series setup. Biggest problem is getting around FIA.
     
  18. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

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    If they are trying to kill the sport. It's working.

    Fans want V10's give us V10's!!! :mad::confused::cool:
     
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  19. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

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    It stems from the secretive Concorde Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde_Agreement

    Liberty has mentioned they want to get rid of the Concorde Agreement when it ends in Dec 2020.
     
  20. TeamF1Jr

    TeamF1Jr Formula 3
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    Bas likes this.
  21. NEP

    NEP F1 Rookie

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    The current rev limit is 15 000 RPM, but due to fuel flow rate and limited fuel allocation, all drivers rev between 11-12 000 RPM.

    18 000 RPM will need a much higher fuel allocation and flow rate,
     
  22. NEP

    NEP F1 Rookie

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    NOVEMBER 1, 2017

    Mercedes not happy with 2021 engine concept says Wolff


    Mercedes has come out in opposition to Liberty Media's proposed new engine formula for 2021.

    On Tuesday, the German marque as well as Ferrari, Renault, Honda and other manufacturers including Porsche got together to hear the new F1 owner's plans for the next-generation engine.

    Liberty wants the 2021 engine to be louder, cheaper, simpler and provide a more level playing field.

    It will be based on the same 1.6 litre V6 base, but without the controversial MGU-H, with higher revs, and with standard batteries and a more "prescriptive design".

    But Germany's Auto Bild claims that Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault are already opposed to the Liberty vision, which will now be discussed at a series of follow-up meetings.

    Mercedes' Toto Wolff told Auto Motor und Sport: "The concept sounds similar to what we have now.

    "But it means a completely new development that will mean we are working on two engines at the same time between 2018 and 2020," he added.

    However, Red Bull is happy.

    "An engine like that is good for us," said Dr Helmut Marko.

    But it appears that existing manufacturers like Mercedes are not ready to give up the argument for engines that are more like the current 'power units'.

    "It's a vision rather than a regulation," Wolff said of Tuesday's Liberty presentation. "And it's their vision rather than the manufacturers'.

    "It is important to define all together what formula one should be in 2021, not just from the point of view of the engine. What we have is the starting point of a dialogue rather than something we have agreed to.

    "Certain things are right, but it's not quite there," Wolff added.

    However, he insisted that Mercedes is not necessarily shaping up for war with Liberty.

    "I just want to make it clear that there are different opinions," said the Austrian. "It was a presentation by F1's management, we will now wait and see what is put on the table next week and start a dialogue from there."
     
    Bas likes this.
  23. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    Simplest thing is to establish an alternative sports governing body. Has proved a successful strategy in Boxing for instance.
     
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  24. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Not only that, I like to see how they imagine a turbo engine with 18000 rpm. Turbo has to be so big to be efffective at those revs it won't have ANY juice below 8000rpm. The real rev ''limit'' will be around 15K, well that's what they'll rev to anyways.
    Yep that'll do it I reckon.

    Now, if F1/FIA was serious about ''listening to the fans'' and save cost, they'd have implemented 4 liter V12 rev capped at 16K rpm. Direct injection, 200bhp KERS unit with alternative settings (lower power but for longer around the lap or 200hp peak, whatever), would give around 1200bhp from the engine with ease and last 2 full weekends easily. Development cost won't be loads. Back in the V8 era I never heard of anyone complain ''oh but they're not developing the engines, this is boring. Big loud V12's will bring fans back, which means more sponsors. Cost already reduced so either more money for teams.

    Reduce aero development possibility. Simpler wings, narrower, longer, much fewer elements. Venturi tunnels to reclaim downforce so speed will still be there. Racing will be closer, more exciting. Yet more reason for fans to start watching. Yet more money coming in through sponsors. Even less money to be spend. Will some current teams leave? Yes. Which ones? Presumably Mercedes and Renault because it's ''not road relevant''. The rest are garagistes, and Ferrari will stay regardless as it's relevant to them in any case. But with the opportunity to now make money in the sport and a much greater chance at finding sponsors, much less running costs so losing a sponsor meaning your team is bust immediately, this opens up the possibility for some teams such as Prema, DAMS, ART and such to make the step up. Who knows, maybe some manufacturers will stay or enter, or a joint venture with the teams just mentioned...Prema Lamborghini, DAMS Renault, ART Porsche...The cost of F1 will be so much less for certain manufacturers it's a no brainer.
     
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