2021 F1 changes

[QUOTE = "Bas Jaski, publicación: 145652780, miembro: 61826"] No solo eso, me gustaría ver cómo se imaginan un motor turbo con 18000 rpm. Turbo tiene que ser tan grande para ser eficaz a esas revoluciones que no tendrá CUALQUIER jugo por debajo de 8000rpm. El '' límite '' real de los revólveres será de alrededor de 15,000, bueno, eso es lo que cambiarán de todas maneras.


Sí, eso lo hará, supongo.

Ahora, si F1 / FIA hablaba en serio de '' escuchar a los fanáticos '' y ahorrar costos, habría implementado un motor V12 de 4 litros con limitación de 16K rpm. La inyección directa, unidad KERS de 200bhp con configuraciones alternativas (menor potencia pero más larga alrededor de la vuelta o pico de 200hp, lo que sea), daría alrededor de 1200bhp del motor con facilidad y duraría los 2 fines de semana completos fácilmente. El costo de desarrollo no será cargado. En la era V8 nunca escuché que alguien se queje 'oh, pero no están desarrollando los motores, esto es aburrido. Un gran V12 ruidoso hará que los fanáticos regresen, lo que significa más patrocinadores. El costo ya se ha reducido, por lo que hay más dinero para los equipos.

Reduce la posibilidad de desarrollo aerodinámico. Alas más simples, más estrechas, más largas, mucho menos elementos. Túneles Venturi para recuperar la carga aerodinámica, por lo que la velocidad seguirá allí. Las carreras serán más cercanas, más emocionantes. Sin embargo, hay más razones para que los fanáticos comiencen a mirar. Sin embargo, llega más dinero a través de patrocinadores. Incluso menos dinero para gastar. ¿Se irán algunos equipos actuales? Sí. ¿Cuáles? Presumiblemente Mercedes y Renault porque no es "relevante para el camino". El resto son garagistes, y Ferrari se mantendrá independientemente ya que es relevante para ellos en cualquier caso. Pero con la oportunidad de ganar dinero en el deporte y una oportunidad mucho mayor de encontrar patrocinadores, y mucho menos costos de funcionamiento, por lo que perder un patrocinador significa que su equipo está en quiebra inmediatamente, esto abre la posibilidad para algunos equipos como Prema, DAMS, ART y tal para dar el paso adelante. Quién sabe,

I like your idea, I want the return of V12!!!!

 

^^^^^^^cool throaty sounds Bas...man if he does'nt have alot of torque coming out of those back wheels, wider tyres maybe.

Aston 'encouraged' by 2021 engine direction



Aston Martin CEO Andy Palmer says he is "encouraged" by the direction of the 2021 engine plans that were presented by Formula 1 bosses on Tuesday.

Aston has recruited staff with F1 experience, including personnel from Ferrari, as it evaluates entering the championship as an engine supplier.

It has also taken on Ferrari engine chief Luca Marmorini as a consultant.

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner has stated that his team would be "absolutely open" to running an Aston Martin F1 engine in the future.

 

Because there’s an agreement in place, it cannot be changed without unanimous consent, and Honda would not have entered (or likely Renault stayed) had there been a shorter period. Do agree, it's a ways away.

 

NOVEMBER 2, 2017

Ferrari not ruling out using veto for engine rules


Ferrari is not ruling out using its controversial 'veto' to block Liberty Media's plans for the future of F1.

Already, it is believed manufacturers Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault are opposing the new F1 owner's plans to make substantial changes to the engine rules for 2021.

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner has accused the two top teams in particular of simply "blocking" the obvious need for serious engine changes.

"In some way or the other, we are always blocking Red Bull in the mind of Christian," said Ferrari team boss Maurizio Arrivabene.

The Italian insists Ferrari and Mercedes actually have every right to express strong opinions about the engines, because "it's our business".

"It's not a question of Mercedes or Ferrari blocking here or blocking there," he said.

Arrivabene said Ferrari wants to "keep the same engine architecture" for 2021, reduce costs, improve performance and boost the show.

"Normally you have the simple equation: what and how?" he added. "For sure it's not Ferrari or Mercedes driving the show, but they are the people who are manufacturing the engines."

And so Arrivabene said Ferrari will not rule out wielding its unique and historic power of "veto" to stop changes it considers are wrong.

"At a certain point we apply our right to do a veto for good reason at that time," he said.

"But within serious people and people who have a clear idea, people who understand what they are talking about, I think you don't need any veto," the Italian added.

 

More rules, manufactured "noise," cheaper, hybrid, https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2017/10/fia-and-formula-1-set-out-clear-direction-for-2021-f1-power-unit.html

It all starts to sound like Formula Prius. Maybe it's time for F1 to call it a day and go out, if not on a high point at least not at the bottom of its history.

The recent/current engines and technology just don't carry the same thunder for me. Watching V12s and boxer 12s and V8s and V6 turbos all mixing it up at Long Beach was really something. Unique sounds, steering wheels that didn't look like X-box controls, cars that even when failing could be nursed on, transmissions and clutches that required real driver skills, and drivers that didn't come from breeder farms...drivers with unique styles that could drag a weak car to the front of the pack and even to the podium.

Throw away the computers sending engine management readings around the world, throw away most driver to pit transmissions, when the car leaves the pit, it and the driver are on their own until the lap is over and they have the option to pit...let the driver manage his own tires and let the pit know (with a nod of his hand) that he'll be in on the next lap...let any tire manufacturer who wants get back in the sport as long as they'll supply at least two different teams but lets get back to two types (soft and hard) of dry tires and two types of wet tires and that's it for the season. Lets let the teams test as little or as often as they like.

And no shaving of body hair. Blah blah blah....

 

http://www.motortrend.com/news/ferrari-threaten/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_content=59fba37404d3017e72d56c27&utm_medium&utm_source

 

NOVEMBER 8, 2017

Four engine makers eyeing 2021 rules


Up to four or more engine suppliers may be interested in joining F1 in 2021.

Despite early opposition from Mercedes and Ferrari, the sport's new owners intend to introduce a cheaper, louder and simpler engine formula after the current era ends in 2020.

The BBC reports that Ilmor and Cosworth, two independent engine manufacturers familiar with F1 in the pre-'power unit' unit, are interested in the 2021 rules.

"The new proposal makes it possible for an independent or existing car company," Cosworth chief Bruce Wood confirmed.

Red Bull sponsor Aston Martin is also eyeing the post-2020 engine rules, while Germany's Auto Bild claims that Porsche could enter the sport as well.

But retired Porsche sports car driver Mark Webber insisted: "Porsche in formula one? It will not happen."

As for McLaren boss Zak Brown, he admitted he hopes the 2021 rules succeed in tempting more engine makers into the sport.

"It would be great to have an independent engine or two, so that if you aren't in a situation where you have a manufacturer, you still have economical and yet still competitive options," he said.

 

That's good news! They just need to follow through.

 

Possible two American teams?????


Andretti Autosports Willing to Consider F1 Entry https://**********.com/p/andretti-autosports-willing-to-JTqNv9igSs6j7aYGWQyLew?iid=AmzZBRBeRfGw8y9Gvt_XPA … via @**********

 

NOVEMBER 13, 2017

Lauda worried about Liberty's F1 vision

Niki Lauda admits Liberty Media's vision of the future of formula one leaves him "worried".

In recent days, the sport's new American owners have outlined their plans for a new engine formula and team budget caps.

"I'm worried," F1 legend and Mercedes team chairman Niki Lauda told Italy's La Gazzetta dello Sport.

"They needed time to figure out what F1 is, but that's about to expire and what they think about the future is worrying me," he added.

"Brawn says we need to level performance, but F1's DNA is the opposite," Lauda insisted.

"You're a fool if you think that to make the races more attractive you need to have a different winner every weekend."

However, Lauda does acknowledge that it is fair for Liberty to want to make engines available to teams for a lower price.

"Sure, and I'm sure we will find a satisfactory compromise," said the Austrian.

"The heart of the problem is the rise in costs and the decrease of revenue, but more than that, where do we want to go? We need ideas but I do not see them.

"I heard from Sean Bratches that we would like to see drivers accompanied to the track by kids. But is it a new idea to simply copy football?" Lauda added.

"The budget cap is logical and correct, but we need a three-year plan to implement it. Do you want us to send thousands of employees into the street?

"For now Liberty has only announced what it wants to introduce, but not how it intends to do it," Lauda added.

So the final question is whether Mercedes is prepared to join its track rival but political ally Ferrari in threatening to quit F1 over the Liberty vision?

"I don't think it's right to make threats," said Lauda, "but from September 2018 we have to decide how to increase revenue and reduce costs. Because it is worrying."

 

I'd like to see them do away with the MGU-H and come up with an electric-motor driven turbine system. Maybe even two. ETU? Electric Turbo Unit... Unimpeded exhaust and higher RPM will go a long ways to 1. Make really good, efficient, power, and 2. Improving the noise aspect and eliminate the thought of ceramic mics (really? smh). Get rid of the parasitic drag on the engine from turning a giant compressor and it will smooth out the torque curve too. Plus if the turbo isn't being spun by the exhaust there's no turbo lag, better control of boost through the rpm range which means it can rev higher more effectively, and it opens the option of instead of DRS have a "Turbo zone" where boost is increased. I don't know about that, just spit-balling. I like the idea of a V6 turning 1000 hp, but it could be done so much better. 3 liter V6 anyone?? Of course its all wishful thinking, of course they're not going to do something cool like that.

 

LIBERTY OUTLINE THEIR FORMULA ONE VISION IN AUSTIN AHEAD OF NEW YORK INVESTOR MEETING. (audio only...34min 05sec..Chase Carey, Ross Brawn)

http://www.libertymedia.com/f1.html

 

NOVEMBER 15, 2017

Horner, Steiner, defend Liberty's F1 plans

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Christian Horner has defended Liberty Media's vision of the future of F1.

Earlier, Mercedes team chairman and F1 legend Niki Lauda admitted he was "worried" about Liberty's plans for a new engine formula and budget caps beyond 2020.

But Red Bull boss Horner thinks Lauda's comments were "a bit unfair and unfounded".

Osterreich newspaper also quoted Horner as defending a dip in profits for F1, saying Liberty Media is not to blame.

"They're investing in the business, which is a different model than what we were used to," he said.

Haas team boss Gunther Steiner backed Horner, saying change can often be unpopular.

"Niki and Bernie were together for 60 years, so probably change is more difficult to accept for them than for some others," he said.

As for Liberty, the new F1 sporting boss Ross Brawn told the BBC that he is "a bit shocked" with how Mercedes and Ferrari have opposed the engine and budget cap plans.

"Reflecting on it, maybe we could have presented it differently," he said, insisting he is open to talks and suggestions. "But I didn't anticipate the response to be as strong as it was.

"If that is the thing people are most upset about, then I apologise."

 

NOVEMBER 16, 2017

Lauda denies Mercedes to join F1 quit threat


Niki Lauda has denied that Mercedes might join Ferrari in threatening to quit F1.

"That's nonsense," the F1 legend and team chairman told Auto Motor und Sport.

But it is clear that the manufacturers, including Renault, are not happy with Liberty Media's plans for an all-new engine formula beyond 2020.

"We first want to see the bigger picture and know where formula one will be in 2021," said Renault chief Cyril Abiteboul.

They are also unhappy about the proposed budget cap, with some figures wondering why Liberty Media - the commercial rights holder - is even stepping into the FIA's area of making the rules.

"Why? Because the rules also determine the commercial success of the sport," said F1 sporting boss Ross Brawn.

And he thinks the expensive, complicated and quiet 'power units' of today are simply "the wrong product for good racing".

For instance, he said that if the engine parts are cheaper, unpopular rules like grid penalties for changed components can be scrapped.

"If a homologated off-the-shelf turbo costs $3000, it doesn't matter how many are used in the season," said Brawn.

Another standard part could be batteries.

"We would have no problem with that," said Abiteboul. "Renault is a carmaker, not a battery maker."

But despite opposition in other areas from other manufacturers, Brawn said F1 must be determined to change.

"We cannot continue like this," he said. "What happens if we lose one or two of the existing manufacturers if their results do not improve?"

Brawn has apologised for upsetting Ferrari and Mercedes with the way the proposals were made, but said Liberty now has "12 months" to negotiate with them.

But he doubts he would do a u-turn over the decision to scrap the MGU-H.

"The argument would have to be very convincing," said Brawn.

 

NOVEMBER 17, 2017

Honda eyes talks over Liberty's 2021 engine plan


Honda thinks there is "room" to negotiate with F1's owners about the future of the engine regulations.

Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault have made clear their unhappiness with the way Liberty Media announced its unilateral plans for a new engine formula for 2021.

Honda, however, has been silent, focusing instead on the end of its ill-fated works McLaren project and the switch to Toro Rosso for 2018.

Boss Yusuke Hasegawa admitted Honda made mistakes at the beginning of the 2017 project, leading to the McLaren divorce.

"From last year to this year, we completely changed the concept of the engine and tried to do a little bit too much," he admitted.

"That's why we have decided to keep the concept for next year, so that from a reliability point of view we are pretty much confident," Hasegawa added.

"Now we need to squeeze more performance from the same concept of the engine, which is what we are currently doing."

As for the 2021 engine rules drama, amid which Ferrari is threatening to quit F1, Hasegawa-san is more quiet.

"Obviously we have started the discussion with the FIA so I don't think it's a good idea to say yes or no in the public," said the Japanese.

"But of course we are respecting the FIA's decision, as they are trying to create a good competition for formula one.

"We are thinking there is some room to modify, so we are trying to find a good solution. Obviously the cost reduction is very important and we are welcoming new manufacturers, so from that point of view we would like to keep discussing," Hasegawa added.

 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/133148/ecclestone-2021-rules-backlash-inevitable

Bernie Ecclestone says it is inevitable that manufacturers have criticised the proposed 2021 Formula 1 engine regulations and the rules should have been left untouched or changed much more radically.

The former F1 CEO, who was deposed in January, believes the changes involve too much extra expense on top of the existing investment.

"The trouble is they've all spent a fortune on these bloody engines," Ecclestone told Autosport.

"And they don't want to go back to their boards and say, 'We need another few quid because we need to modify the engines'.

"I think honestly they should do something really different, or leave it alone.

"All they had to do was what we agreed three years ago, I think, with Jean Todt, which was more fuel flow, and more fuel in the car, and let them rev to another 2000 revs. That's all that was necessary."

Ecclestone is sceptical about the prospect of F1's new owner Liberty Media being able to execute the changes it wants to make to grand prix racing.

"They shouldn't have made so many predictions, should they, as to what they could do," he said.

"They should have waited to see what can be done.

 

NOVEMBER 20, 2017

Wolff worried about Liberty's F1 vision


Toto Wolff has now joined Niki Lauda in saying he is worried about F1's future.

Lauda, who co-owns the Mercedes team together with Wolff and the German carmaker, recently said he is concerned about Liberty's vision of the sport's future.

He now tells Brazil's Globo: "We had to give them time to identify the DNA of the series.

"But I can already say that for Mercedes, and from what I have talked about with other teams too, there are things that worry us.

"One is that they have restructured F1, hiring a number of professionals at a cost of $70 million a year, which could mean less money for the teams. We still don't know what amount will be divided between us in 2018," Lauda said.

The F1 legend also said he is worried about Liberty's plans on the sporting side.

"Every time we talk, I get the feeling they (Liberty) want the Nascar system, where all the teams are the same so that everyone can win. But this is the opposite of F1," said Lauda.

"In our competition, we honour the best car, the best designers and the best drivers. And that's something Ross (Brawn) should know because he was a part of this F1," he added.

Wolff, the Mercedes team boss, admits he shares Lauda's concerns.

"Bernie Ecclestone invented something and made it into something great over 50 years," he told Bild am Sonntag newspaper.

"And we now have the responsibility to keep it great. We have different opinions about how to do that, but we will continue to talk to each other," Wolff said.

 

NOVEMBER 20, 2017

Renault wants to keep same engines in 2021


Renault cannot approve of Liberty Media's vision for the 2021 engine formula until other aspects of the future are also clear.

That is the claim of Cyril Abiteboul, the Renault team boss who said he joins Mercedes and Ferrari in currently opposing the plan for substantially different engines.

"What we have been presented with is a new engine," he told Auto Motor und Sport.

"That means a new development, a new project, probably more people, more investment.

"The second problem is that we don't know what formula one will look like in 2021. The chassis, the cost reduction measures, how the money distribution changes -- we don't know the whole picture," said the Frenchman.

"We have the engine concept but we can only judge that when the other puzzle pieces are together," Abiteboul added.

A key element of Liberty's engine vision is the removal of MGU-H, but Abiteboul said that is actually "an unknown".

"From today's perspective I have to say I don't like MGU-H," said Abiteboul. "But by 2020 we will have our problem under control.

"Then it will be cheaper for the manufacturers and the customers, and yet everything will start again at zero with a new engine concept," he added.

"And there will again be manufacturers who will find the right and the wrong solutions, dividing the field into two groups again. Therefore, I see no reason to deviate from the existing concept."

 

The new engine, simplified etc, is dead. Done. Gone.

 

NOVEMBER 21, 2017

2021 plan will not entice new engine makers says Abiteboul


Cyril Abiteboul doubts Liberty's proposed engine formula for 2021 will entice independent manufacturers onto the grid.

One stated aim of the new rules is to allow the likes of Aston Martin, Cosworth, Ilmor or others to be able to enter formula one.

But Renault boss Abiteboul doubts the plan will work.

"If the FIA and Liberty do not propose an engine that dictates standard technology or extreme restrictions in most areas, then private manufacturers cannot come," he told Auto Motor und Sport.

"And such a business plan would only work if the manufacturers were subsidised by a sponsor or a car company," the Frenchman added.

"But such an engine would be unattractive for car companies.

"So I ask the FIA and Liberty who they want to favour with this engine format? If it's new car manufacturers, let's ask them what they want," Abiteboul said.

 

NOVEMBER 29, 2017

Mercedes joins Ferrari in F1 quit threat


Mercedes is now joining Ferrari in threatening to quit formula one after 2020.

Earlier, Ferrari president Sergio Marchionne said that if Liberty Media proceeds with its plans for the 2021 engine rules and budget cap, the Italian team could withdraw and race elsewhere.

And now, Mercedes boss Toto Wolff has admitted he is not happy at the end of Liberty's first year in F1.

"Nothing," he said when asked by Kronen Zeitung newspaper to point out a Liberty-inspired highlight of 2017.

"Doing erratic actions like Michael Buffer in Austin does not make the sport any better," said Wolff.

When told that Liberty just wants closer racing, a better engine and cost controls, Wolff responded: "But we do not see any vision.

"Nobody knows where the journey is going. All we know now is that sales and profits have fallen sharply."

So when asked if Mercedes could join Ferrari in its F1 quit threat, Wolff said: "Such a scenario is quite conceivable. Just as it is for Ferrari.

"If we do not see what formula one stands for, then we have to ask ourselves the difficult question: not if but where do we want to operate in motor sport at the highest level?" he added.

 

Not the best of news.


NOVEMBER 30, 2017

Todt to stay as FIA president until 2021


Jean Todt will not face a rival as he secures his third and final four-year tenure as FIA president.

F1's governing body is on December 8 expected to ratify the 71-year-old Frenchman's place at the top of the FIA for the 2018-2021 period.

Under FIA rules, no president can serve for more than 12 years, so it will be Todt's final term.

"Personally, I don't need it," he told the Gulf News.

"If I am elected I will speak for the people. When I was elected, clearly the FIA was more split than now.

"When I announced I would be a candidate I received 160 endorsement letters. This means two things: that they are either happy with me, or (they) have no chance to win against me," Todt smiled.

 

NOVEMBER 30, 2017

Brawn wants three more carmakers in F1


Ross Brawn says he wants more car manufacturers to enter formula one.

This week, it was finally confirmed that the Ferrari-linked Fiat brand Alfa Romeo is entering the sport in 2018 as Sauber's title sponsor.

But F1 sporting boss Brawn told Sport Bild: "There are several premium manufacturers that I would like in formula one.

"Porsche is one of them, but also Aston Martin and Lamborghini. That's why we need to create an environment that's attractive to them," he said.

Brawn said it is therefore crucial that F1 simplifies the engine rules for 2021.

"I guarantee you: with today's power unit, no manufacturer is interested in getting started. That's why we have to make it cheaper and easier," he insisted.

 

I just don't get all this and why this is so hard. On one hand, everyone complains about these PU's. The new regs as best as I understand them, simply remove the one motor unit from the turbo and standardize a few parts. Now... the teams are complaining? What the hell do they want? Are they saying they want these overpriced PU's or not?

Go back to some sort of V8 with unlimited fuel, fuel flow, and rev limit and just about any high end engine builder would be able to compete. At that point, do we need Car Manufacturers... or could we just now have a series about the highest level of racing?

 

DECEMBER 4, 2017

Marchionne says Fiat quit threat serious


Sergio Marchionne has reiterated his threat to pull Ferrari out of F1 after 2020.

In fact, the Fiat CEO is now also threatening to withdraw Sauber's newly announced Alfa Romeo sponsorship, over the dispute with Liberty Media about future rules.

"We are serious and need to find a solution, and I think Chase (Cary) understands that we cannot back down," Marchionne said.

Marchionne's latest threat has curious timing, given that the new Alfa Romeo-Sauber partnership is being touted as a 'long term' one.

"Such projects are always designed for the long term," confirmed Sauber team boss Frederic Vasseur.

But Marchionne said the deal is in fact only guaranteed for 2018, 2019 and 2020.

"The Alfa Romeo agreement with Sauber expires in 2020-2021," he told La Gazzetta dello Sport, "when Ferrari could go out of formula one.

"We have to find a solution for the sake of the sport. A compromise must be found."