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208/gtb/gts turbo

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Ricardo, Feb 9, 2004.

  1. Ricardo

    Ricardo Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    60
    Portugal
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    Can anyone provide me with more information on these cars? Both the 308 and 328 bodied versions? I live in Europe, so I could probably find one of these cars.

    Has anyone owned/driven one?

    I read somewhere that the diference from a 328 engine to these 208 engine's was small. Could a 208 turbo be upgraded to 3.2 liters? at what cost? how much more power would it make?

    Is the diference between 208 turbo and 308 as well as from gtb turbo to 328 only in the engine capacity and turbocharger?

    Could some who has driven/owned both 328 and 348's compare both? The only Ferrari I have driven is a 348 ts which was my dad's. Could you also compare it to a more moder car in the same price range, let's say a Porsche boxster?

    Allan, there was a thread about this car a while back and you mentioned you had a friend with one upgraded to 350bhp. What was done to this car? I think I read somewhere that you had a 348. How would it compare?
     
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  3. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,732
    Nova Scotia Canada
    Full Name:
    Neil
    A general rule is:
    The cost of upgrading a car with more power will cost the same if not more than buying the model with the same power already present.

    Good luck.
     
  4. Ricardo

    Ricardo Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    60
    Portugal
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    The prices I have seen have 30% diference between a gtb turbo and a 328 turbo.

    That is around 20.000 Euros! Besides that in Portugal there is a tax on engine capacity and there is a 2.500 euro tax diference on both cars!

    Would this be enough to make this upgrade?
     
  5. Chenrezi

    Chenrezi Karting

    Feb 10, 2003
    161
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Olá Ricardo!
    Pah,tenho uns artigos altamente sobre o que estás a perguntar.
    Nomeadamente tenho um comparativo (em Italiano) entre o GTS Turbo e o 328 normal.
    Em Portugal parece melhor a compra do 208 devido ao imposto automóvel, mas se tiveres em conta que um carro com mais de 8 anos (como estes tem) paga menos 67% de IA (em caso de importação) o que acaba por nivelar um bocado as coisas.
    Eu estou em Lisboa agora (sou de Aveiro) mas por alto poss-te dizer que entre os links todos e artigos que recolhi sobre estes dois carros o 328 é mais linear, mais rápido na resposta e mais performante.
    O 208 tem mais binário mas tem o chamado "turbo-lag" que prejudica a suavidade de condução (atraso na resposta devido aos turbos) para alem de que a nível de consumos o 208 Turbo tem um consumo quase "proibitivo" - isto para um Ferrari!!!
    Se não estou em erro consegues arranjar em Itália 208 Turbo por +/- 35000€ e 328 por 40000€ o que, para mim e depois de tudo analisado acaba por fazer pender o pendulo para o 328.
    Quanto aos "upgrades" do 208 Turbo podes fazê-los, mas como já te disseram aqui o custo de os efectuares não compensa o ganho.
    Para alem do facto de estares a por em sério risco a fiabilidade de um motor cuja capacidade volumetrica está já extremamente bem aproveitada...
    No fds se quiseres posso-te mandar uns ficheiros sobre isto.

    Espero ter ajudado.

    Fica bem!

    Cheers everybody!

    Miguel
     
  6. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    11,507
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    There are a few way you could go on the upgrades. I don't like very high boost turbo engines on the street, I think 15 psi is the practical limit.

    My opinion is that that there is no replacement for displacement. So find a good used 328 engine and put it in the car and don't tell the tax people what you did. Another option is to put a 328 crank, rods pistons (you might need custom pistons) into your engine, that why it still has a 2 liter serial number on it.

    Then, put your turbo plumbing back on. The stock turbo might get you 5 psi or so, I'd need to see graphs on it to be sure, you might need a slightly larger one. That would put you around 350 hp and be a very drivable car without any reliability worries. If you still want more, a bigger turbo would push you up around 450 @ 15psi, but you'll need a better clutch. If you are will to live with a lot of lag and a really big step in the torque curve, you could push the boost up to 22-24 and have about 600 hp and and even better clutch, I'm using a triple disk carbon-carbon http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4309.

    I guess if your willing to live with a lot of lag and a really big step in the torque curve, you could justr boost the stock engine up to 22-24 and see about 350-400 hp. You could also do some work on it to bump the redline up to around 9000-9500, that would buy you another 15%.

    I think the best thing to do would be convert to EFI for about $3k. It should be possible to recalibrate the CIS stuff, but I don't know anything about doing it.

    I would also recomend upgrading to modern shocks with stiffer springs
     
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  8. Ricardo

    Ricardo Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    60
    Portugal
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    Obrigado Miguel. É optimo ver mais ferraristas Portuguese neste site. Vou reponder em Ingles para ser acessivel a todos.

    I am aware that the turbo engines have more lag and are less linear. However this sometimes add's to the fun! I used to have an Audi RS2 and it was really great when the turbo kicked in.

    What I am trying to do is build a car to my spec. I am really bored with the more modern cars that are in my price range. I just got a bmw 320 cd, and besides the obvious slowness of the diesel engine, the car's feel is not exiting at all! Even the RS2, except for the turbo kick was really not so much fun to drive.

    Since I cannot afford a 355 or 360, I would be looking for the cheapest base to start a project. I am even considering buying a 208 Gtb!

    I guess the main question would be how much would it cost to trasnform a 208 to have 350 to 450 bhp, upgrading the suspension, tyres and brakes, obviously, and still keeping it as a road car that I could use.
     
  9. wimeldo

    wimeldo Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,297
    (Spain)
    Full Name:
    Alfredo
    Hi

    @Miguel
    soy de España y tengo un Ferrari GTSTurbo 1987, estoy muy interesado en leer cualquier cosa referente al GTS/GTB Turbo. Puedo leer en cualquier idioma, solo se escribir bien en Español :(
    Si puedo ayudaros en algo que querais saber de este coche, decidmelo.

    Saludos.

    Alfredo.
     
  10. Testacojones

    Testacojones F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
    5,139
    Terra
    Hola, yo no se mucho sobre el 208 turbo. (Yo vivo en florida, estados unidos) Pero lo que yo vi aca fue un coche 208gts turbo que es mas rapido que un 328gts o gtb version americana. El mecanico me dijo que era un modelo europeo y que sus modificaciones eran menores. De yo estar en europa probablemente el 208 turbo seria mi compra ya que este es mas facil de modificar, con turbos se puede hacer mucha diferencia. De ser el coche un 328 entonces seria mas costoso el modificarlo sin usar un turbo. Bob Norwood tiene turbos para 308 y 328 que ofrece a buen precio, su website es "norwoodperformance". Suerte en tu compra, hasta luego...
     
  11. Testacojones

    Testacojones F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
    5,139
    Terra
    Ricardo, si hablas de Allanlambo a lo mejor te refieres al mismo 208 turbo del que yo mencione, Allan vivio en florida creo que cerca de Fort Lauderdale y yo vivi en esa misma area. Asi que lo que el diga posiblemente sea cierto, digo esto porque muchos piensan que el es un charlatan.
     
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  13. wimeldo

    wimeldo Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,297
    (Spain)
    Full Name:
    Alfredo
    Hola a Todos

    @Ricardo
    Referente al 330d he leido sobre los chip de potencia a los que te refieres, efectivamete la potencia del motor aumenta a 220 cv y el par motor a 50 nm, es recomendable solo si piensas mantener el coche hasta los 80 o 100 mil Km., lo digo por que después, probablemente surgirán problemas de transmisión, embrague o como en un caso que conozco, avería en los pistones.
    Yo no te recomiendo que lo pongas en tu 320cd.
    Referente al GTSTurbo, yo lo tengo como capricho, solo lo uso algunos domingos y entre tanto, me gusta estar cuidándolo. La forma de funcionar del 330d y el GtsTurbo es muy distinta, el 330d tiene, como sabes, una aceleración plena e intensa desde muy bajas revolucionas hasta las 4500 y el Gts Turbo es muy distinto, hasta las 3000 rpm tiene un poco de "Turbo lag" pero cuando pasa esta cifra, viene el estallido de potencia y tiene unos segundos de aceleración plena e intensa que te deja pegado al asiento hasta las 6500 rpm., teniendo en cuenta que es un coche para pasear un rato, es estupendo, el rato que te estas paseando estas disfrutando. Yo estoy muy contento con el.

    @Testacojones :)

    Hay 3 series de 208, dos de ellas con turbo, entre estas dos hay diferencias importantes, el primer 208 sin turbo solo tenia 155hp, la siguiente versión ya con un turbo KKK tenia 220 hp y la ultima, el Gtb/GtsTurbo, con un turbo japones IHI, tiene 254 hp.

    Saludos.

    Alfredo.
     
  14. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    11,507
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    The question comes back to you, is it a street car or a track car? For the street the stock brakes are fine, for the track they are OK with stock size tires. For the track on big sticky tires, you'll want big brakes and could easily spend $3k and will probably spend $5k. I spent about $2200 on large 2 piece rotors but have not decided what to do about calipers yet. Same is true for shocks. Stock koni replacements are about $600. I'm quite happy with the ohlins STJ shocks I purchased, they were $2400 with springs. The next step up to a better shock was $3200 if I recall and the best is around $5k

    Good wheels are expensive. Used 360 wheels can be had for around $2k if you shop. I have 550 wheels on mine that I paid about that for. After market prices run from about $1000 for pretty heavy wheel up to $5k or $6k for the set. Tires run $600-$2400 for the set.

    HP. 350hp could be done from the 2 liter engine. I would plan on stiffer valve springs ($1000), EFI convertion ($3000), new turbo ($2000), free flow exhaust ($1500), clutch $600. So the total is about $8100 if you do the work yourself. To get the 2 liter to 400+, Ti rods, pistons, head porting, cams, plan on putting $10k-$15k of parts in the engine plus the $8100 for the other stuff. A good used 3.2 liter engine is $7500-$10000, plus the $8100 and you'll get to 450, add another $10k to get to 600.

    Are you going to do the work yourself? If not the part costs will only be about 1/2 to 2/3 of the total bill.

    Here's a couple threads I posted while building mine 308. If you search the archieves (old and new), there is also a guy with a very nice twin turbo 308

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/315437.html
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/324659.html
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4309
     

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